I love how bible thumpers cherry pick scripture they agree with and skip the rest. "We believe in Gods word!" Oh you mean like when the bible says "When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt,"
They're accelerationists. It's not that they actually think Trump is holy. They'll take ANYTHING, even the antichrist himself, to accelerate their goals.
"Accelerationism is a range of ideologies that call for the drastic intensification of capitalist growth, technological change, and other processes of social change to destabilize existing systems and create radical social transformations." - These guys are absolutely not that. They are lost in a fantasy of a bygone age that never quite existed. CNN's Accelerationist overlords find them to be useful tools, however.
But Fascism is not Accelerationist. Right-wing accelerationism is explicitly anti-Statist and incompatible with Fascism, which requires a controlling political state (ie it doesn't care about profit). Fascists think they can harness capitalist economies for their own ends, nationalising what they want, and dangling private ownership as a reward for their financial backers. Accelerationists favour a Dark Enlightenment with a CEO operating as a figurehead of a sort of "capitalist monarchy".
The only time anyone should ever submit to anyone else is after they've established boundaries, ground rules, and a safe word. OR if it's 1998, when The Undertaker threw Mankind off Hell In A Cell, and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer's table.
I often wish we could put all of these people on their own island. Let them live out their ideals. When they completely self implode, because they don't know how to do a fucking thing, we just laugh at them. Maybe stream it?
#3 it won't work unless you make it loud, disruptive to society and most importantly last more than one fucking day.
Thats the main crux or every protest lately. It lasts one day, you all pat yourselves on the back for your turn out and nothing changes. Every fucking time.
Look at history, the actual effective protests disrupted for days, weeks and months.
100%. they made a terrble take on faith and being a "victim" their personality. I sadly have an inlaw like this who is the worst person I know. "the only black lives that matter are the ones who attend church" ~ his facebook
Oh god, the victim complex. There's this conservative dingbat with a Punisher skull neck tattoo who always shows up in my area, starting unprompted political rants with strangers, and half the time they turn into whinging about being the enemy of the (Liberal) government or someshit. "They want to make us all weak and metrosexual because they're afraid of strong men with opinions, like me!" and I can fucking hear the eyerolls around me.
That's literally all they have. It's the bedrock of white supremacy. It's the foundation of toxic masculinity. It's the desperate cry that, despite having accomplished nothing of value, having no worth to society, having made no mark on history, having no unique traits or skills, having no group of renown to claim brotherhood in - that they must still, somehow, in defiance of all evidence, be special, better; superior to someone.
Closest thing to this position in the Bible is wives submitting to husbands and women not being placed in spiritual authority over men. There might be some argument that submitting to a husband means having to vote the same political appointments but it's a weak one and could be contested by other verses. The argument that women shouldn't be in leadership or military positions is groundless with several biblical examples to the opposite. This is stretching religion to fufill personal desires.
Burn Christianity to the ground. Ok, that's my first take, and I admit a bit hasty. Not all Christians are like this. My second take: all these men who say women shouldn't have a vote or any authority or autonomy, I say they spend a year living under the same rules they want for women. If they still have these views at the end of that year, they spend the rest of their lives living under the rules they want to impose on women. If they think it's a great idea, then it's a good idea for them.
Nah, I suspect they could do it for a year. Knowing at the other side they'd get all that power. Just like asking someone rich to live on minimum wage for a short time. Most of the major problems don't happen right away. You can put off solving them for a few months if you have to.
But also, they think women are actually inferior. So they would say doing that to a man is evil and wrong, but it's fine to do to women.
Honestly if you're going to get rid of Christianity then you have to include all religion. That being said these people aren't even Christian. They're something else entirely while telling people they follow Christ.
Crazy part is, their god doesn't tell them to do this. Christ tought basically the exact opposite. Christ as written in the Bible would have nothing to do with them.
The bible says to pluck out your eyes if it makes you sin and that you should be stoned to death for about 300 different things. But we're not going to ever bring up how none of that makes sense huh?
#1 can a Christian explain to me, like I am five, how these Christians are not a clear and present danger to the national security of the United States and our way of life?
And also, if these people represent Christianity, what the actual fuck?
they do not represent the book that Christianity teaches, but rather they cherry pick the select stories that are in the book to go and follow. Their ideal world is that literally of Red Dead Redemption because they haven't realized the chance to be cowboys was way before they were born.
Any decent Christians would say they are a clear and present threat, any other Christians can get fucked. My mom and multiple members of her church have been getting together at rallies to protest the orange demon.
I'm not christian, but I have lots of friends and family who are. There are actual christ-like followers, and then there are dollar store discount pretend-christians. The latter VASTLY outnumbers the former. And, most infuriatingly to me, the former won't lift a finger to oppose the latter. "They'll use our position against us one way or another, so we walk the path and ignore what others do."
So the pretend christians grow and the actual kind, caring real christians dwindle.
After 9/11 we asked, 'where are the good Muslim condemning the bad Muslims?'
The question now is, 'where the hell are the good Christians?' Cuz from the outside view, it looks like they do not exist and it is just these pieces of shit.
Christian here: they are absolutely a danger to this nation, and they are a cancer to the American church. They are creating a cult of power that uses Christian trappings to crush and oppress. They are truly taking the name of God in vain.
The Behind the Bastards podcast has some interesting episodes on how the rich and the right wing took over evangelical Christianity along with the formation of the "moral majority" in the 70's and their support of Reagan and the Republicans.
The tl:dr is there have always been conservative strains of Christianity but when FDR got elected there was a concerted effort to magnify those leading to the current crop of vocal extremists.
These people are not Christians because this isn't what Christ said to do. They do whatever the fuck they want and put Christ's name on it. In the Bible Christ himself called people like this "whitewashed graves" and claimed they would be the first to be judged. He chased people like them out of the temple with a whip and flipped their tables.
religions is what practioners do not their origins - and because the NALT christians spend more time whining about how they're not like that, and how non-Christians are meeeeean, they're not horse-whipping these fascists speaking for them
While not really untrue, I think what you're saying is a bit pedantic. If people behave by hating women but say they are feminist they are liars. It doesn't matter if most of the feminist movement either behaved like them or the rest didn't stop them, they are not what they claim to be. The group is judged by what they do, but one of the best ways to go against their actions is to call them out for being liars and hypocrites and not what they claim to be.
My Dude, those "Not Real Christians" are the ones who are speaking for the rest of them, and no "We're Not All Like That" are doing any serious push back in the public sphere. They're spending more time whining about being painted with the same brush while being happy to hold the pail... or benefiting from the Christofascist erosion of the separation of Church and State
The parents and grandparents of these men were spitting on Black teenagers who were just trying to go to school. Their grandfathers were pouring sugar over the heads of Black teenagers who dared to sit at the counter in "new" unsegregated malt shops and soda fountains. Their grandfathers, when told they had to let Black kids on the same school bus, went out of their way to redesign the bus route to make it hellishly long but also pick up the "quota" of Black kids. This is just a new costume.
Christian here, everything in the religion says these guys are fucking demons and need to die. Big book itself even states how Christ took a fucking whip to people just like this.
I would argue that a group is defined by its membership... I would argue they absolutely are real Christians... just like those Israeli Zionist genociding fucks are real Jews (even tho they have no understanding of Judaism....)
I've read their book cover to cover. By the time I was done I was pissed the church I went to in my teens cherry picked so much, and I was done having anything to do with them. The hateful ones are the real Christians.
We got what you meant... and I agree... this is a distinctly American form of Christianity... hell, Germany had Christian Democrat as a political party and it wasn't anywhere near this batshit insane.... these Christians also oppose feeding children or providing healthcare (the joke is that their Jesus asks for a $75 copay to cure leprosy).
I spent 10 years in the US Army (the lone Jewish kid in an infantry battalion in Germany, I think there were like nine Jewish enlisted dudes in all of USAREUR... the chaplains were always the go to when you were being screwed over...
I haven't read much of the New Testament, but I have read the Book of Mathew, and it seems extremely clear that whatever version of Christianity these guys are practicing has nothing to do with it.
you are correct. They are considered apostate and heretical. Apostate=a falling away from the faith and heretical because they teach things NOT in the Bible and teach things that are contrary. It's obvious even to non Christians.
I am actually kind of a fan of Mathew... I read it and got the whole Christianity thing.... and then I saw American Evangelical Christians and was like, 'wow, no'
I think this is a hyperfocus on 1 Timothy 2:9-15 and ignoring everything else in the New Testament...
Yes and no. While 1 Timothy is certainly the way that fundies see women, the core of modern US Christian issues is the christo-fascist interpretation of John 3:16:
"If I believe, even if only for a moment on my deathbed, I am above eveeything and will live in heaven for eternity. Thus, I can do no wrong in the eyes of God."
This is the root at the very base of the plant. Without the belief that they are Saved simply by saying "Jesus save me", they have to have morals ALL THE TIME.
Evangelical churches used to be just ordinary churches. Their focus on the gospel (which is what they should be doing) then it got infected with the worst. As Frost says "Nothing gold can stay."
May I suggest a YouTuber by the name of Dan McLellan to you? He has multiple Masters degrees in Biblical studies and spends vast amounts of time and effort destroying the arguments of guys like the ones in this video. I think you would enjoy his content.
It's in the fucking instruction manual, Timothy 2:9-15. You are literally saying that the Bible's instructions and ideals are a cancer of Christianity. I don't disagree but that means that Christianity is the tumour.
No that's not what I mean. The way that many of them use that verse is incorrect. It is only for the people in the faith. a non believer is never to be forced in some way to adhere to it. Submission is for both the husband and the wife in love. Meaning they live in accord, in peace, and love for each other. . It's not submission in the sense of beating someone down and keeping them under your thumb. Timothy was a pastor. Paul is giving him instruction regarding that
Just to get this out of the way, how do you interpret Jesus saying that NONE of the law will go away until the heavens and earth disappears? To me that is entirely clear language, all 613 laws are to be followed even better than the prophets until the end of time. It is what it says, isn't it?
"11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. " It doesn't say what you say it says at all and there is no uncertain language to interpret nor does the context change any meaning at all.
The letters to Timothy and Titus are considered forgeries by the majority of scholars.
Paul seemed to have no problem with women in positions of power in the church. He praised several by name: Prisca, founder of one of the churches at Corinth. Phoebe, deacon of the church at Chenchreae. Junia, an Apostle. Chloe, head of a group of Christians in Corinth…
a little history: there's something being addressed here. ( it has to do with female oracles and how it caused confusion also spoken of in other NT books) It resolves a problem. It also must be matched with similar verses. That comes out as what I was explaining. Yes, context matters. Unclear verses can be made understood by more clear passages. Women can totally speak in church and do ministry. The NT is full of them. I wish you well.
1. They are. 2. I don't know what the fuck to say anymore. I was taught you followed Christ for the same reasons you used science when faced with a hypothesis. You don't use science to prove you're right, you use science to become right- to paraphrase Xkcd. By the same token, you don't follow Christ to prove you're better, you follow Him to become better, because one of the sticking points is that we're all flawed.
A "Christian" would tell you it's God's will so it's the only way to do things. To me these is no difference between Sharia Law, Halakhah, and Canon Law. It's all the imposition of a belief system on an entire nation's population. It's the opposite of religious freedom, which includes the freedom to not be religious.
Sharia law is Islamic law. Canon Law is Christian law. Don't use the term "a kind of sharia law." when describing Christians trying to impose religious laws please.
More people understand what Sharia Law is - at least in the degree that it is unwanted and forced on others - than have even HEARD about Canon Law before. We're here to communicate, not hold hands.
Thanks, needed a chuckle. Sure wish more people would read their religious texts and abandon these churches. Have a barbecue or meet for political discussion if you need a sense of community on Sundays.
Well, ok, Devils advocate here. She did ask if they accepted women in positions of leadership in the church and government. He did, at least, specify, "In the church? No." And she asked why not, to which his response was accurate. "Bible said so" So, that statement, in that situation, its fine, the question, and answer, was relevant.
The issue is, I doubt they would want women in any capacity for anything but a cook/incubator. In or out of the Church.
Ask a christisn to tell you the history of the bible. Start with jesus and walk me through to the king James version. Unless they majored in theology, they wont have a clue. They dont care about the history, of course, but they have no idea how the random stuff came together and changed over millenia.
I went to catholic and Jesuit schools, have a minor in theology and can tell you that most people just use it as talking points, most bible thumpers have no idea what they are talking about (I’m also an atheist now)
if they cared. they do what they're told. education is what is dictated to them. the words are interpreted for them. no questions; just dogma. why conservatism goes hand-in-hand w/bad religion. all b/w w/no need for thoughts or questions. 'deeply held beliefs' is code for '"it's all too hard to understand — stop asking!"
I try to be cautious about using the word “history” around religious texts, like the Chistian Bible. I’m sure there is some relevance, but let’s be real and not pretend that book captures actual history.
I will also add. The Jewish Bible *cough* the OG before the incell remix *cough* had an example of a great female leader Deborah. Wild how Christians consider that part of their lore, but know nothing about it.
What do you mean 'start with jesus' though? That character wasn't invented until about 70 or 75 CE by the unknown author of what we now call the Book of Mark, who cited no sources, never claimed to have even spoken to anyone that claimed to have met Jesus. It's all just derivatives from there.
I don't think any of that is credible, but that's okay - we'll likely never really know. But brushing away the historicity question is perhaps disingenuous, even if you'd prefer to believe the person existed historically. As I say, there was no record of him existing until 40y after he was meant to have died. All the mythology around his birth (the non-divine aspects) is clearly bonkers (there was no 'census you had to travel home for' etc). It's all prophecy-fulfilling back-story stuff.
If you wanna discount the supernatural, great, but this always seemed like a ridiculous claim to me. A charismatic leader with a common name wandering around the middle east preaching sounds pretty damn plausible.
Do you think its impossible that Abe Lincoln was a wrestler, lawyer, rail splitter, and president? That he was dying of a terminal disease when an assassin shot him and the killer's brother saved his son's life? Must have been like 12 different guy's stories blended together!/s
Yeah, I used to assume that he existed, because that's the popular position. It may be ridiculous if you've not considered the arguments to and fro, and that's okay. My considered opinion is a) first & foremost, it doesn't matter, and b) he probably didn't exist *as a non-divine person*. If your bar is 'a bloke called Jesus existed 2000 years ago', then yeah, sure, that's definitely true. If it's *that* bloke that's described in the bible existed (except for the woo bits) then .. not so much.
👍 I gotcha To me - I think It's almost definitely true that Joshua of Nazareth wasn't the only son of the supreme being of the universe, but given a few refrences at the time, and looking at how cults work now I feel confident saying that christianity wasn't a conspiracty to build a religon around a person who never existed, or that most of the tales are from other sources. Yes, modern cults are power/money grabs +CSA by a charismatic person, but it's common pattern...
2/2 - I overlooked your comparison, sorry. The problem there is that Abe Lincoln had a lot of contemporaries writing about him, first hand accounts, citing their sources, and you can correlate those stories, and they all fit. This Jesus character - there's no second-hand sources at all, none of the stories we have are written by people who claim to have met him, a few are written by people who even identify themselves. Lincoln (or more commonly Alexander the Great) comparisons are disingenuous.
Aside from the fact that most scholars accept that there probably was a historical Jesus, you’re forgetting the authentic letters of Paul which predated Mark. And Paul does claim to have directly seen the risen Jesus, and to have talked to people who saw the living Jesus.
Well, a) most biblical scholars are christians, so their desire / opinion is quite skewed on this subject, and b) we don't really know who Paul (Saul) was as he never identified himself, all we know is several of the letters attributed to him were almost definitely written by one person (style analysis). He never claimed to have met Jesus, and did claim his insights were 'from revelation' - no other sources were cited in his works. 1/2
There's no corroborating evidence for his claims about meeting various kings or other rules, no Jewish records of his (ostensibly quite profound) split from their church. No contemporary historian mentions him at all. So, yeah, someone - might as well call him Paul - existed, and wrote this stuff, but it was revelation-inspired not from first or second hand experience. If he actually did claim to have seen the risen Jesus, this would contradict the (original) ending of the Book of Mark. 2/2
I counter that argument with, "Well, the Constitution says.... and we used to be guaranteed those rights by our government. Only the church "guarantees" anything in the Bible, and half their shit is for when you're dead anyway.
Matthew 1.22-23: All of this took place to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet: “Look, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means, “God is with us.” (Matthew is misquoting Isaiah here)
Luke 1.27: to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary.”
Luke 1.34: Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?”
HandFireWeapon
Well OBVIOUSLY Christians don't believe that women should be in any position of leadership. It's banned in their fucking book.
VelvetWarhol
SeRaQt
WillTheFifth
It's a fucking fascist death cult. What the actual fuck is going on?
vardarac
Mithi
Hegseth is an DUI-hire!
MektaSatakOz
Just for the record, please don't associate us with these fuckwits, we hate them too.
Tolocamp
Just reactionary, backwards people wasting oxygen.
JackDeHearts
Woah, Pootin bots are in full force tonight. -6 in 5 minutes.
MostLikelyNotWearingPants
I love how bible thumpers cherry pick scripture they agree with and skip the rest. "We believe in Gods word!" Oh you mean like when the bible says "When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt,"
NO NOT LIKE THAT!!!
Calicoastin818
trump is the antichrist and the walking talking 7 deadly sins how do these morons not see that ?
debob
"God works in mysterious ways" they say.
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
It suddenly clicked, for me.
They're accelerationists. It's not that they actually think Trump is holy. They'll take ANYTHING, even the antichrist himself, to accelerate their goals.
Accelerationists are dogshit terrorists.
Telemapus
"Accelerationism is a range of ideologies that call for the drastic intensification of capitalist growth, technological change, and other processes of social change to destabilize existing systems and create radical social transformations." - These guys are absolutely not that. They are lost in a fantasy of a bygone age that never quite existed. CNN's Accelerationist overlords find them to be useful tools, however.
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
Fascism is social change.
Telemapus
But Fascism is not Accelerationist. Right-wing accelerationism is explicitly anti-Statist and incompatible with Fascism, which requires a controlling political state (ie it doesn't care about profit). Fascists think they can harness capitalist economies for their own ends, nationalising what they want, and dangling private ownership as a reward for their financial backers. Accelerationists favour a Dark Enlightenment with a CEO operating as a figurehead of a sort of "capitalist monarchy".
Wingshark
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTY1YjkxZmJlMWdqZXhiMWkxYzgycWdteDRrOHRldjR6bm1zaTYwN29xZXp2bHVkaSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/y8Su8LKU5CKWyACnQf/200w.mp4
PlainlyPuzzled
Goatherds guide to the Galaxy
wobblecopterrrr
this is nothing new
Switzerlandisntreal
Then please stop talking to that baby making washingmachine if she dont want any rights. How stupid are they all. Why is america like this
antoinettehaupt2
Submit to my husband??????????
I love and respect my husband
I Argue with him
I disagree with him
Have great conversations with him
But Submit……..? Thats just such creepy yucky shit
WillTheFifth
The only time anyone should ever submit to anyone else is after they've established boundaries, ground rules, and a safe word. OR if it's 1998, when The Undertaker threw Mankind off Hell In A Cell, and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer's table.
antoinettehaupt2
😂 love it
Spanky44
I often wish we could put all of these people on their own island. Let them live out their ideals. When they completely self implode, because they don't know how to do a fucking thing, we just laugh at them. Maybe stream it?
friendsofsandwiches
Note: THis post is already at -5.
FUcking god damn A.
L0rdinquisit0r
are these the dominionist arse holes from his first term? or new ones
vardarac
they've been here since well before Trump, before Palin, before Reagan even
Someshithead241
#3 it won't work unless you make it loud, disruptive to society and most importantly last more than one fucking day.
Thats the main crux or every protest lately. It lasts one day, you all pat yourselves on the back for your turn out and nothing changes. Every fucking time.
Look at history, the actual effective protests disrupted for days, weeks and months.
MasterMookie
I bet they want slavery back as well. Because the bible says where to get your slaves and how to treat them Exodus 21.
sanyr
"i would cast the vote having discussed it with my household"
Would you? Or would you tell your tradwife to butt out and go make sure the kids clean their room?
HelpTheWretched
I'll be honest, it sounds like these fellas have no prouder accomplishments than "being born white and male".
SarcasticComment
100%. they made a terrble take on faith and being a "victim" their personality. I sadly have an inlaw like this who is the worst person I know. "the only black lives that matter are the ones who attend church" ~ his facebook
HelpTheWretched
Oh god, the victim complex. There's this conservative dingbat with a Punisher skull neck tattoo who always shows up in my area, starting unprompted political rants with strangers, and half the time they turn into whinging about being the enemy of the (Liberal) government or someshit. "They want to make us all weak and metrosexual because they're afraid of strong men with opinions, like me!" and I can fucking hear the eyerolls around me.
AnotherDiscordianAtLarge
That's literally all they have. It's the bedrock of white supremacy. It's the foundation of toxic masculinity. It's the desperate cry that, despite having accomplished nothing of value, having no worth to society, having made no mark on history, having no unique traits or skills, having no group of renown to claim brotherhood in - that they must still, somehow, in defiance of all evidence, be special, better; superior to someone.
onepinksheep
If you're supposed to follow everything in the Bible, then why the hell are you wearing mixed fabrics?
Raileks
Closest thing to this position in the Bible is wives submitting to husbands and women not being placed in spiritual authority over men. There might be some argument that submitting to a husband means having to vote the same political appointments but it's a weak one and could be contested by other verses. The argument that women shouldn't be in leadership or military positions is groundless with several biblical examples to the opposite. This is stretching religion to fufill personal desires.
wannasee
4B movement saves women's lives.
rubypilgrim
Burn Christianity to the ground. Ok, that's my first take, and I admit a bit hasty. Not all Christians are like this. My second take: all these men who say women shouldn't have a vote or any authority or autonomy, I say they spend a year living under the same rules they want for women. If they still have these views at the end of that year, they spend the rest of their lives living under the rules they want to impose on women. If they think it's a great idea, then it's a good idea for them.
AllTheKitties
Nah, I suspect they could do it for a year. Knowing at the other side they'd get all that power. Just like asking someone rich to live on minimum wage for a short time. Most of the major problems don't happen right away. You can put off solving them for a few months if you have to.
But also, they think women are actually inferior. So they would say doing that to a man is evil and wrong, but it's fine to do to women.
hashbaz
Honestly if you're going to get rid of Christianity then you have to include all religion. That being said these people aren't even Christian. They're something else entirely while telling people they follow Christ.
quade
"MY god says I can't do a thing" is religion.
"MY god says YOU can't do a thing" is hate.
hashbaz
Crazy part is, their god doesn't tell them to do this. Christ tought basically the exact opposite. Christ as written in the Bible would have nothing to do with them.
bretlawson11042
I fully support women who don't think they should vote not voting.
Kenbamazingbutprobablywontbe
The bible says to pluck out your eyes if it makes you sin and that you should be stoned to death for about 300 different things. But we're not going to ever bring up how none of that makes sense huh?
pompoikpoik
Well... Maybe we should not give them ideas...
Kenbamazingbutprobablywontbe
Im ok with letting them pluck out thier own eyes.
SirMisterDudeBroPhD
Psh they couldn't approach an idea with a fork and a knife. These are not intellectuals just weasely manipulators.
bippityboppitybuttsex
#1 can a Christian explain to me, like I am five, how these Christians are not a clear and present danger to the national security of the United States and our way of life?
And also, if these people represent Christianity, what the actual fuck?
jtbill
they do not represent the book that Christianity teaches, but rather they cherry pick the select stories that are in the book to go and follow. Their ideal world is that literally of Red Dead Redemption because they haven't realized the chance to be cowboys was way before they were born.
ilovetraveler
Any decent Christians would say they are a clear and present threat, any other Christians can get fucked. My mom and multiple members of her church have been getting together at rallies to protest the orange demon.
Helixninja333
No, you're right, they are a clear and present danger. He basically a klansman without the mask. And I bet he's worse with the mask on.
relsky
I'm not christian, but I have lots of friends and family who are. There are actual christ-like followers, and then there are dollar store discount pretend-christians. The latter VASTLY outnumbers the former. And, most infuriatingly to me, the former won't lift a finger to oppose the latter. "They'll use our position against us one way or another, so we walk the path and ignore what others do."
So the pretend christians grow and the actual kind, caring real christians dwindle.
Fuck religion.
bippityboppitybuttsex
After 9/11 we asked, 'where are the good Muslim condemning the bad Muslims?'
The question now is, 'where the hell are the good Christians?' Cuz from the outside view, it looks like they do not exist and it is just these pieces of shit.
OSCgal
Christian here: they are absolutely a danger to this nation, and they are a cancer to the American church. They are creating a cult of power that uses Christian trappings to crush and oppress. They are truly taking the name of God in vain.
BobisBobIsHimIsMe
They worship the anti christ.
Trump
pandaman1982
The Behind the Bastards podcast has some interesting episodes on how the rich and the right wing took over evangelical Christianity along with the formation of the "moral majority" in the 70's and their support of Reagan and the Republicans.
The tl:dr is there have always been conservative strains of Christianity but when FDR got elected there was a concerted effort to magnify those leading to the current crop of vocal extremists.
hashbaz
These people are not Christians because this isn't what Christ said to do. They do whatever the fuck they want and put Christ's name on it. In the Bible Christ himself called people like this "whitewashed graves" and claimed they would be the first to be judged. He chased people like them out of the temple with a whip and flipped their tables.
rshini
religions is what practioners do not their origins - and because the NALT christians spend more time whining about how they're not like that, and how non-Christians are meeeeean, they're not horse-whipping these fascists speaking for them
hashbaz
While not really untrue, I think what you're saying is a bit pedantic. If people behave by hating women but say they are feminist they are liars. It doesn't matter if most of the feminist movement either behaved like them or the rest didn't stop them, they are not what they claim to be. The group is judged by what they do, but one of the best ways to go against their actions is to call them out for being liars and hypocrites and not what they claim to be.
rshini
My Dude, those "Not Real Christians" are the ones who are speaking for the rest of them, and no "We're Not All Like That" are doing any serious push back in the public sphere. They're spending more time whining about being painted with the same brush while being happy to hold the pail... or benefiting from the Christofascist erosion of the separation of Church and State
Telemapus
The parents and grandparents of these men were spitting on Black teenagers who were just trying to go to school. Their grandfathers were pouring sugar over the heads of Black teenagers who dared to sit at the counter in "new" unsegregated malt shops and soda fountains. Their grandfathers, when told they had to let Black kids on the same school bus, went out of their way to redesign the bus route to make it hellishly long but also pick up the "quota" of Black kids. This is just a new costume.
KommanderKayriel
Christian here, everything in the religion says these guys are fucking demons and need to die. Big book itself even states how Christ took a fucking whip to people just like this.
SavageDrums
They're one sect of many in the cult of Christianity, all bullshit, but some more dangerous than others.
FetteredJuvenescence
They'll tell you they're not a threat because the US is a christian nation and blah blah basically.
bippityboppitybuttsex
You forgot that get-out-of-jail free card prefix of 'Judeo-' so they sound 7% less antisemitic...
mikeatike
You are gonna get a lot of: tHeY aReNt rEaL cHrIsTaNs
bippityboppitybuttsex
I would argue that a group is defined by its membership... I would argue they absolutely are real Christians... just like those Israeli Zionist genociding fucks are real Jews (even tho they have no understanding of Judaism....)
mikeatike
I've read their book cover to cover. By the time I was done I was pissed the church I went to in my teens cherry picked so much, and I was done having anything to do with them. The hateful ones are the real Christians.
woozle
former army chaplain, forgive my brevity, they are following a terrible set of doctrine that's like a cancer on Christendom it's...more->
woozle
completely out of orthodoxy and is "Aemrican" in it's views. one of the positions is the 7 mtn. mandate-part of which is taking control-->
woozle
of civil governance.
woozle
ugh I misspelled American because of course I did. hth
bippityboppitybuttsex
We got what you meant... and I agree... this is a distinctly American form of Christianity... hell, Germany had Christian Democrat as a political party and it wasn't anywhere near this batshit insane.... these Christians also oppose feeding children or providing healthcare (the joke is that their Jesus asks for a $75 copay to cure leprosy).
bippityboppitybuttsex
I spent 10 years in the US Army (the lone Jewish kid in an infantry battalion in Germany, I think there were like nine Jewish enlisted dudes in all of USAREUR... the chaplains were always the go to when you were being screwed over...
I haven't read much of the New Testament, but I have read the Book of Mathew, and it seems extremely clear that whatever version of Christianity these guys are practicing has nothing to do with it.
woozle
you are correct. They are considered apostate and heretical. Apostate=a falling away from the faith and heretical because they teach things NOT in the Bible and teach things that are contrary. It's obvious even to non Christians.
woozle
the fact that they can't see it demonstrates their apostacy
Zalm
I mean, the whole "women shall not have positions of authority" is actually in the bible. So not exactly heretical.
bippityboppitybuttsex
So is an adovocation for slavery and genocide...
So, I am guessing these men also eschew their wealth and exist to help the poor?
bippityboppitybuttsex
I am actually kind of a fan of Mathew... I read it and got the whole Christianity thing.... and then I saw American Evangelical Christians and was like, 'wow, no'
I think this is a hyperfocus on 1 Timothy 2:9-15 and ignoring everything else in the New Testament...
Necrothean
Yes and no. While 1 Timothy is certainly the way that fundies see women, the core of modern US Christian issues is the christo-fascist interpretation of John 3:16:
"If I believe, even if only for a moment on my deathbed, I am above eveeything and will live in heaven for eternity. Thus, I can do no wrong in the eyes of God."
This is the root at the very base of the plant. Without the belief that they are Saved simply by saying "Jesus save me", they have to have morals ALL THE TIME.
woozle
I am totally aware of how little they know what the Bible teaches and therein lies the problem. They're failing and being failed.
woozle
Evangelical churches used to be just ordinary churches. Their focus on the gospel (which is what they should be doing) then it got infected with the worst. As Frost says "Nothing gold can stay."
IamIntoleranceIntolerant
May I suggest a YouTuber by the name of Dan McLellan to you? He has multiple Masters degrees in Biblical studies and spends vast amounts of time and effort destroying the arguments of guys like the ones in this video. I think you would enjoy his content.
pompoikpoik
Why do you split you're comment before reaching the 500 characters limit... ?
derekjohn
I'm still on 140 unless I'm replying to a comment made by somebody who's on the 500 limit - weird programming bug.
HandFireWeapon
Just get tampermonkey/violentmonkey/greasemonkey (whichever one you prefer) and get the ImgurComment500Limit script. I'm on old and it works perfect.
kiomadoushi
They're probably on one of the few remaining versions that are still limited to 140 characters.
HandFireWeapon
Just get tampermonkey/violentmonkey/greasemonkey (whichever one you prefer) and get the ImgurComment500Limit script. I'm on old and it works perfect.
INeedMoreGifMeMoreJustOneMore
Might be on an old version of the app, pre-upping of the limit
HandFireWeapon
Just get tampermonkey/violentmonkey/greasemonkey (whichever one you prefer) and get the ImgurComment500Limit script. I'm on old and it works perfect.
HandFireWeapon
It's in the fucking instruction manual, Timothy 2:9-15. You are literally saying that the Bible's instructions and ideals are a cancer of Christianity. I don't disagree but that means that Christianity is the tumour.
woozle
No that's not what I mean. The way that many of them use that verse is incorrect. It is only for the people in the faith. a non believer is never to be forced in some way to adhere to it. Submission is for both the husband and the wife in love. Meaning they live in accord, in peace, and love for each other. . It's not submission in the sense of beating someone down and keeping them under your thumb. Timothy was a pastor. Paul is giving him instruction regarding that
HandFireWeapon
Just to get this out of the way, how do you interpret Jesus saying that NONE of the law will go away until the heavens and earth disappears? To me that is entirely clear language, all 613 laws are to be followed even better than the prophets until the end of time. It is what it says, isn't it?
M4UsedRollout
If you’re a Gentle, see Acts 15. If you are an ethnically Jewish Christian living in Israel, then you’re subject to the laws of Moses.
HandFireWeapon
"11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. " It doesn't say what you say it says at all and there is no uncertain language to interpret nor does the context change any meaning at all.
M4UsedRollout
The letters to Timothy and Titus are considered forgeries by the majority of scholars.
Paul seemed to have no problem with women in positions of power in the church. He praised several by name: Prisca, founder of one of the churches at Corinth. Phoebe, deacon of the church at Chenchreae. Junia, an Apostle. Chloe, head of a group of Christians in Corinth…
woozle
if you read my other comments you will see my convo is about false teachings from terrible "Christians" and how they've perverted everything
woozle
a little history: there's something being addressed here. ( it has to do with female oracles and how it caused confusion also spoken of in other NT books) It resolves a problem. It also must be matched with similar verses. That comes out as what I was explaining. Yes, context matters. Unclear verses can be made understood by more clear passages. Women can totally speak in church and do ministry. The NT is full of them. I wish you well.
ImurevJourhein
1. They are. 2. I don't know what the fuck to say anymore. I was taught you followed Christ for the same reasons you used science when faced with a hypothesis. You don't use science to prove you're right, you use science to become right- to paraphrase Xkcd. By the same token, you don't follow Christ to prove you're better, you follow Him to become better, because one of the sticking points is that we're all flawed.
ImurevJourhein
actually, I take the first part of number 2 back. I do have a really good fucking idea of what to say, but the mods won't let me.
KommanderKayriel
Stack Nazis high.
mikeatike
Klaus, get the forklift.
kahlas
A "Christian" would tell you it's God's will so it's the only way to do things. To me these is no difference between Sharia Law, Halakhah, and Canon Law. It's all the imposition of a belief system on an entire nation's population. It's the opposite of religious freedom, which includes the freedom to not be religious.
KommanderKayriel
These demonic Nazis are trying to impose a form of Sharia Law, yes. The NAR, New Apostolic Reformation, is a cult that Trump introduced into power.
kahlas
Sharia law is Islamic law. Canon Law is Christian law. Don't use the term "a kind of sharia law." when describing Christians trying to impose religious laws please.
KommanderKayriel
More people understand what Sharia Law is - at least in the degree that it is unwanted and forced on others - than have even HEARD about Canon Law before. We're here to communicate, not hold hands.
kahlas
If you don't want to communicate intelligently maybe go find someone else to communicate with.
invaderjak
"because the Bible says" Nothing you have to say after that has any relevance
BigPLLL
Smidge204
Unless the next words are to the effect of: "...nothing of relevance or importance."
invaderjak
Very good distinction, thank you
scout27302
Thanks, needed a chuckle. Sure wish more people would read their religious texts and abandon these churches. Have a barbecue or meet for political discussion if you need a sense of community on Sundays.
Zalm
Well, ok, Devils advocate here. She did ask if they accepted women in positions of leadership in the church and government. He did, at least, specify, "In the church? No." And she asked why not, to which his response was accurate. "Bible said so" So, that statement, in that situation, its fine, the question, and answer, was relevant.
The issue is, I doubt they would want women in any capacity for anything but a cook/incubator. In or out of the Church.
nikinnorge
because the bible says it's OK to beat your slaves if you do it just right, and that's the reason we need to bury Abrahamic religions forever.
SonnyVabitch
One of the many reasons.
gayvillian
Ask a christisn to tell you the history of the bible. Start with jesus and walk me through to the king James version. Unless they majored in theology, they wont have a clue. They dont care about the history, of course, but they have no idea how the random stuff came together and changed over millenia.
SneakyGaryTheSerialHorseDrowner
Even if it's gone unchanged through all of history I'm not inclined to let a bunch of goatfucking primitives dictate my ethics.
nero4ty2
I went to catholic and Jesuit schools, have a minor in theology and can tell you that most people just use it as talking points, most bible thumpers have no idea what they are talking about (I’m also an atheist now)
GitchyGitchyOohLaLa
if they cared. they do what they're told. education is what is dictated to them. the words are interpreted for them. no questions; just dogma. why conservatism goes hand-in-hand w/bad religion. all b/w w/no need for thoughts or questions. 'deeply held beliefs' is code for '"it's all too hard to understand — stop asking!"
OurLordLucifer
I try to be cautious about using the word “history” around religious texts, like the Chistian Bible. I’m sure there is some relevance, but let’s be real and not pretend that book captures actual history.
OurLordLucifer
I will also add. The Jewish Bible *cough* the OG before the incell remix *cough* had an example of a great female leader Deborah. Wild how Christians consider that part of their lore, but know nothing about it.
AliensProbably
What do you mean 'start with jesus' though? That character wasn't invented until about 70 or 75 CE by the unknown author of what we now call the Book of Mark, who cited no sources, never claimed to have even spoken to anyone that claimed to have met Jesus. It's all just derivatives from there.
TheMilliner
Well, we know that Jesus was a real person. The fact he existed isn’t really in contention any more, it’s mostly just his status as divinity that is.
Really, he was just some charismatic dude that preached a relatively small religion until he was killed by a jealous religious sect and got popular.
AliensProbably
I don't think any of that is credible, but that's okay - we'll likely never really know. But brushing away the historicity question is perhaps disingenuous, even if you'd prefer to believe the person existed historically. As I say, there was no record of him existing until 40y after he was meant to have died. All the mythology around his birth (the non-divine aspects) is clearly bonkers (there was no 'census you had to travel home for' etc). It's all prophecy-fulfilling back-story stuff.
astrangehop
If you wanna discount the supernatural, great, but this always seemed like a ridiculous claim to me. A charismatic leader with a common name wandering around the middle east preaching sounds pretty damn plausible.
Do you think its impossible that Abe Lincoln was a wrestler, lawyer, rail splitter, and president? That he was dying of a terminal disease when an assassin shot him and the killer's brother saved his son's life? Must have been like 12 different guy's stories blended together!/s
AliensProbably
Yeah, I used to assume that he existed, because that's the popular position. It may be ridiculous if you've not considered the arguments to and fro, and that's okay. My considered opinion is a) first & foremost, it doesn't matter, and b) he probably didn't exist *as a non-divine person*. If your bar is 'a bloke called Jesus existed 2000 years ago', then yeah, sure, that's definitely true. If it's *that* bloke that's described in the bible existed (except for the woo bits) then .. not so much.
astrangehop
👍 I gotcha To me - I think It's almost definitely true that Joshua of Nazareth wasn't the only son of the supreme being of the universe, but given a few refrences at the time, and looking at how cults work now I feel confident saying that christianity wasn't a conspiracty to build a religon around a person who never existed, or that most of the tales are from other sources. Yes, modern cults are power/money grabs +CSA by a charismatic person, but it's common pattern...
AliensProbably
2/2 - I overlooked your comparison, sorry. The problem there is that Abe Lincoln had a lot of contemporaries writing about him, first hand accounts, citing their sources, and you can correlate those stories, and they all fit. This Jesus character - there's no second-hand sources at all, none of the stories we have are written by people who claim to have met him, a few are written by people who even identify themselves. Lincoln (or more commonly Alexander the Great) comparisons are disingenuous.
M4UsedRollout
Aside from the fact that most scholars accept that there probably was a historical Jesus, you’re forgetting the authentic letters of Paul which predated Mark. And Paul does claim to have directly seen the risen Jesus, and to have talked to people who saw the living Jesus.
AliensProbably
Well, a) most biblical scholars are christians, so their desire / opinion is quite skewed on this subject, and b) we don't really know who Paul (Saul) was as he never identified himself, all we know is several of the letters attributed to him were almost definitely written by one person (style analysis). He never claimed to have met Jesus, and did claim his insights were 'from revelation' - no other sources were cited in his works. 1/2
AliensProbably
There's no corroborating evidence for his claims about meeting various kings or other rules, no Jewish records of his (ostensibly quite profound) split from their church. No contemporary historian mentions him at all. So, yeah, someone - might as well call him Paul - existed, and wrote this stuff, but it was revelation-inspired not from first or second hand experience. If he actually did claim to have seen the risen Jesus, this would contradict the (original) ending of the Book of Mark. 2/2
M4UsedRollout
There are many biblical scholars who are not Christians, and they are also not Mythicists.
SarcasticComment
yup. I really don't need to care for your justification for being a douchebag.
RandywithanI
Is that cotton thread in your polyester shirt? Stone the heretic!
WorkerLurker
The amount of mental gymnastics when I bring up mixed fabrics would qualify them in the safe space Olympics.
invaderjak
I bet they eat bacon, too
RandywithanI
The old testament is a buffet for picking the things that are convenient for the church.
Vungor
Have they given doves to their priest when they ejaculated?
Smidge204
Speaking of buffet, we need to burn down pretty much every seafood place in the nation before God gets angry.
invaderjak
Funny how they only pick the things that make life better for them
Daliena06
Now now, they also love to pick the things that make life worse for everyone else.
JestersWing
I counter that argument with, "Well, the Constitution says.... and we used to be guaranteed those rights by our government. Only the church "guarantees" anything in the Bible, and half their shit is for when you're dead anyway.
Beefkins
Ask Christians how many of the gospels say Mary was a virgin.
SonnyVabitch
Not a Christian, but now I'm curious, how many?
M4UsedRollout
2, Matthew and Luke.
spqrchic
0!
SonnyVabitch
Thanks! Countdown to some maths nerd to point out that 0! = 1.
spqrchic
😆🤓 touché
M4UsedRollout
No…
Matthew 1.22-23: All of this took place to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
“Look, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means, “God is with us.”
(Matthew is misquoting Isaiah here)
Luke 1.27: to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary.”
Luke 1.34: Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?”
Matthew implicitly. Luke explicitly.
spqrchic
She's a virgin when she had Jesus. No part of the Bible explicitly says she remained a virgin for life. That's a later invention.