YvesStRollerblade
16040
581
15
Where is Charlemagne when you need him?
Feb 13, 2025 3:26 PM
YvesStRollerblade
16040
581
15
Where is Charlemagne when you need him?
IdrinkandImakethings
Putin will have Muskie and his little dog Donnie fighting his wars for him before it’s all over. For us, that is.
OldBikerDude
Putin told his employee what to say...
Grimmrog
Ah putin told donny what to do on the call.
blackguard89
This is a announcement that America can guarantee exactly jack point shit from now on and should be treated as such
truthputer
Of course this is total bullshit, it's like two butchers arguing about which leg their victim should have amputated while the victim looks on in dismay because they only have a sprained knee.
The most just outcome from here is the total withdrawal of Russia, a public apology, significant reparations to cover the cost of reconstruction and rebuilding - and Ukraine joining NATO to prevent it from happening again.
Unfortunately none of that will happen thanks to trump's cowardly corruption.
GnomeDeGuerre
America is populated by a pile of surrendering nurglites and mexicans and canadians.
solmazer
Look.. I can handle us being the laughing stock for the foreseeable future. But I cannot handle us being seen as one of the baddies.
Zahnradfee
I'm sorry, friend. Personally, I know that lots of Americans do not want this bullshit to happen. But sadly a lot of other people do not have the mind for nuance.
Just hold on. It's going to be a rough ride for all of us.
ShieldAnvil1
The Ukraine stuff was expected, I have been dreading it since he was elected BUT you pair this with the fact he wants us to go back to the middle east (GAZA) It is just a deep since of despair. I hope Europe stands up and finish what the us was to inept too. I was happy to support Ukraine, at least the stupid amount we put into our weapons development was doing some real good but now...
Zahnradfee
I'm just watching the evening news about it. It's a catastrophe. Hitler-Stalin pact all over again.
I live in Europe and I'm not only afraid for the fate of the Ukrainians, but also for our own future, because if Russia and North Mexico attack us on two fronts, we're fucked.
powwerbottom
bexxMaker
Sivziv
Trumped called his boss?
Tom40
Should we start a pool on how long it will take for Trump to describe the phone call as “perfect”?
Aeonika
Probably already has. Possibly while still on the phone.
Sechran
Czechoslovakia be like,
terdFerguson3electricFergaloo
I think Europe should move fwd without the US and help Ukraine win their war. Just one of the larger EU countries could bring down Russia. Poland/Germany/UK should move outside of NATO and put troops and equipment on the ground in Ukraine. If they aren't serious enough to do this, then they have just been playing around the last 3 years. Europe needs to ascend to a higher plane and do what is right.
KipperFillets
Collectively Europe has spent more than the US. What we don't have is the type of weapons Ukraine needs, that are made in the US thanks to the incredibly high military spending.
nonickname23
Canada would very much like to join the EU business community like Australia did.
CarlBassett
If the UK can join the Pacific Free trade deal then Canada could join the EU. Though personally I think upgrading their military, doing more with Nato etc would be better.
Jace99
It sickens me that Americans’ response to having this traitor tear up and shit on their constitution is a collective “surely someone will save us”. WTF happened to the “home of the brave”? Their grandfathers, who stormed the beaches of Normandy, are rolling in their graves and screaming right now.
Aeonika
You answered your own question. They're dead.
Euoric
Basically, everyone is waiting for it to get bad enough to justify military involvement. Unfortunately, that's going to mean things are going to have to get very bad, before anyone does anything meaningful.
madvin
Europe here! We will never let Putin wins!! NEVER!! Fuck you 'merica with your totally immoral extortions!!!
merxman
Only about 30% of us. Another 30% of us are just as horrified and frustrated and trying to get it together to oppose as best we can.
Joefisk
Europes relations have not been the same with the US since the Maralardo documents fiasco. They know not to trust this S hole country ever again.
Rendova
Wasn't the Afghan government excluded from negotiations with the Taliban?
OrificeAndEurydice
A pity Europe waited to expand its military production thinking the war might end soon …
vizeroy42
Well... The new munitions plant (outside of Switzerland) goes online this year... We got new Artillery rolling out, new Tanks ordered... Yeah... considering our 40 year old tech still outclasses everything in the current war... We are just semi worried.
UnlimitedTrickPony
as a German: it's time for an EU army ... German tanks, Finnish snipers, French nukes and Foreign Legionaires, Balkan Partisans, Scottish massed pipes and drums and 216.000 active personnel of angry Polish men screaming "Kuuuurwwwaaaa!!!" as they charge the enemy
EvilKillaruna
as a Polish, I can assure you, we are still angry and will do it again with pleasure.
ekzeko
Keeping an open mind, this basically sounds like the worst army of ww1, the austrian one, exactly because it multicultural diversity was such a handicap when trying to make mass cohesive manoeuvres.
UnlimitedTrickPony
I would be willing to declare English the official administrative language of Europe ... everybody speaks it anyways already ... ok, you can't understand the French when they try to speak it ... but everybody else actually is able to communicate fine
ekzeko
It already is, but considering the french have the largest land army, soon poland maybe, you can see the issue. Just saying, napoleon's grand army had the issue, the austro-hungarian did. I dont think we'll overcome it very easily. Second, what energy are we going to build that army with? We gave up the russian flows. We still buy it at a premium from india, but essentially theres no scaling there. And the americans are charging us out the ass for their LNG. My second point, no EU army-
ekzeko
without first mass nuclearisation.
vizeroy42
The differences are:
1) All military personnel already speak englich and train together regularly in international manouvers.
2) We already have European command groups
3) All European Armies more or less have the same Nato derived training with some local additions.
4) Culture wars aren't that prevolent anymore, like in WW1, where the countries were still quite at each other's throats.
ekzeko
1) No they don't. That's why Nato had to get a Quebecker to head command of the strike force on libya to coordinate french and americans.
2)So did the austrians
3)Somewhat meaningful but the doctrines of france, and poland are different enough that they actually would take quite a while to calibrate. You could see it in Afghanistan where french and american operations were run drastically differently. The german army has to be rebuild from the ground up. So painstaking but adaptable-
ekzeko
4) Actually european country are more heterogenous than ever and whereas the difference between a white frenchman and a white italian may not be so great anymore, 3rd generation immigrants from either would cause real cultural divides.
JackHL01
Do you REALLY want a strong and militarily well schooled german leader?
Subtilico
If the alternative is a russian, chinese or american dictator: yes.
Zahnradfee
At the moment, yes.
So, we have this guy, Boris Pistorius, who is in the same party as stil-chancellor Scholz and serves as minister of defense at the moment.
Scholz is unpopular, but Pistorius managed to not do anything wrong and is generally regarded as competent, so all the people who want to retain the SPD in power say that Scholz is a bad candidate and that the party should set up Pistorius instead. Sadly, Pistorius either genuinely does not want the office (understandably) or has been >
Zahnradfee
told to stay back.
I'm not going to vote for SPD, but I still would be happier with giving Pistorius a try than trying Scholz again, and I would be MUCH happier with Pistorius than with Merz.
codeacrobat
Ja!
alexcoldt
Oh no, Europe has to build it own military industrial complex and become a unified world power... what ever will we do...
vizeroy42
Not sure, if sarcastic, or not... Rheinmetall... KMW... quite a few others, more local ones... The Abrams tank already uses a Rheinmetall main gun...
alexcoldt
The issue is though there's a big difference between the ongoing low rate production of vehicles and the high rate production and development needed to actually arm the entire block. On top of that there's the equipment sharing issue. That street goes both ways, there are tons of U.S. built parts in every European weapon systems, and each one of them is a entire supply chain that needs to be made. It's an investment on a grand scale that's needed, and frankly, the need the U.K back for ships.
alexcoldt
Ran out of text, for capital ships. The U.K. is the only european power capable of producing new carriers, france has ONE, that they can only maintain. That said, Europe's pretty good on subs. German makes GREAT diesel boats, and Italy and Germany both make good frigates.
vizeroy42
Why would we need any aircraft carriers? USA needs them, because thete is a heck of a lot of water between them and their targets to get "democratized"...
The thing is, we practice what Trump claims now: no forced state building.... no coups...
The US has to maintain bases in Europe to be able to operate their drones, which just create new terrorists by killing families.
We always have military development going on - just not as loud and prominently advertized as the US.
Zahnradfee
With the onslaught of right-wingers in many European government (and some of those being Putin lovers, like the AfD or the entire Orban gang) I don't know how we will fare.
Johnsky
The United States has betrayed the free world.
GregorMadnill
Maga the Betrayers
GregorMadnill
or the new band Maga and the Betrayers
cepacolusmaximus
again.
QuitLookinAtMineAim
Yes, and rest assured we will suffer for it along with everyone else. Furk
Goldensands
powwerbottom
Donald Trump has betrayed the United States
CheeseB0t
Cope. The united states have betrayed the free world by voting him in.
M4UsedRollout
He did exactly what we expected him to do.
voidmain
Not really.. he is doing exactly what he said he would.. people just didn’t want to believe it
GoneSolo
He did that 4 years ago with his coup. He should have been hanged till dead on the 8th
CheeseB0t
Cope. The united states have betrayed the free world by voting him in.
DisgruntledFerret
To be fair, the United States has also betrayed the United States. We're just as much stuck on this ride as you guys are.
Shitzamboni
You're stuck until you decide that Mario's brother was in the right.
MissSiesta
At least you have the means to push put the driver out the door, and take over the wheel.
CheeseB0t
The free world includes the United states.
It's like saying white lives matter.
TheMightyMollusk
Our freedom is an illusion. Just ask anyone who's ever had to go to a hospital here.
LovelyMover
the United States is not a part of the free world. that is over. you are not an ally, you are the enemy.
rainbowsandunicorns575
The United States has been betraying most of the world for decades. Why are you surprised? Only because it’s Ukraine on the chopping block now?
truthputer
Yeah, there is no US president in living memory that wasn't a war criminal one way or another. The US is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. But whenever they get in trouble for corruption, they just change the law to legalize that behavior. The US legal and political system is weaponized to enable and facilitate corruption at the expense of ordinary citizens and other countries. Do not trust.
Johnsky
Only? The orange fuck is threatening us in Canada, he's threatened Mexico, he's threatened Greenland, I guarantee you he's turning on europe... How many allies you got left?
Zahnradfee
Putin. Putin is his ally. And yes, the two of them will absolutely turn against Europe.
rainbowsandunicorns575
I’m Canadian, buddy. I’m very aware of the orange turd’s actions.
rainbowsandunicorns575
And I was commenting on this post, not generally.
Johnsky
I get that, I was speaking in the same manner. I often tend to refer to the idiots in the third person, as if I were yelling at them out of agreement with the person I'm speaking with.
PineappleLoopsBrOether
I hope you all know that 1/3 of us are okay, cuz we’re abandoning this shit.
CheeseB0t
You don't get to wash off the stink that easily.
The world will remember how America was on the wrong side of history.
CheeseB0t
1/3 of you voted for this while 1/3 sat at home doing sfa.
The majority voted for this and you would do well not to obfuscate that with your "but it wasn't me" narrative.
PineappleLoopsBrOether
How good are your math skills? You just mentioned the 2/3 I was differentiating from.
Zahnradfee
We know. But "the United States" is a political entity. We also say "Russia has attacked Ukraine", even though there were Russians protesting against the war.
armyguy
What do you mean?
PineappleLoopsBrOether
Not all of us are stupid, racist, maga following buck toothed sister fucking white trash meth head assholes, and we’re surrounded and wishing we had a safe place to call home, so we’re leaving America because we give up trying to fix this abusive relationship that will never work, and we don’t want you to think we’re like that when we come to live somewhere outside this pyramid scheme of a country.
CheeseB0t
The tendencies you've learnt as an American will not wash off so simply. Your very attitude to the world is tainted by your americanism and the rest of the world will remind you of that.
American exceptionalism runs deep in you lot after all.
PineappleLoopsBrOether
You have no idea about me personally, and I am not an American. I left my family 3,000 miles behind when I was 24. I’m Californian.
LincLoud
Some of us are trying to leave but finding it difficult, especially if you don't have high-demand skills or a lot of money
truthputer
Right-wing fascism is on the rise all around the world and unfortunately it's becoming increasingly difficult to find countries that have resisted this.
CheeseB0t
Sounds like the last thing. Any country would want to do is import Americans who have a history of voting for this shit
RonSwansonApproves
I can no longer get a passport to match my documents because somehow I'm a threat to christian civilization despite barely leaving my house
AddictedToImgur420
Lmao
henryvk
Beware, Americans. Your oligarchs are selling you the narrative that you don't have universal healthcare because you've been "footing the bill" for Europe's defense. However, we are already paying through the nose for America's colonial blunders in the Middle East by taking in millions of refugees. Pay attention! You are being scalped by a corpocracy and you've wasted trillions on regime changes that benefitted only the 1%. The EU desparately needs an army but don't believe their lies.
Euoric
There's nothing to beware. We know. We all know. Those of us who care, tried to vote appropriately. The ones who are willing to be fucked over regardless, got what they wanted. No one, who the narrative matters to, is buying it. We're just waiting to see how fucked it gets before a civil war starts.
defensivebackhair
This is basically it. We are beyond protests now its not a question of if, but when
Subtilico
Also: after WW2, the whole world was bankrupt, except for the US, they got filthy rich out of it.
henryvk
It was mutually beneficial though, because the US could just keep producing arms for that Cold War, Korea, Vietnam etc and Europe gained access to an enormous oversea market.
ByJoveByJingle
That’s a rich take. Europe has long been a source of the instability in the Middle East. Everybody needs to take a step back and begin by taking responsibility for their own actions. Blaming the US for everything without acknowledging your own role is equally as disingenuous as any counter-narrative you are bitching about.
henryvk
„Yeah, I set the house on fire, but you guys left three or four dry twigs in the hall“
ByJoveByJingle
Ah, another person who knows next to nothing about the Middle East except those pesky brown skinned people from there are invading my Lilly-white country. Get out of here. Read some books. It’s good for you.
henryvk
Fuck off and take in a few million refugees then we can talk
MissSiesta
Ew. A Russian traitor.
ByJoveByJingle
Great to reconfirm that ignorance and stupidity knows no political boundaries.
RedStarVidal
I want the US to support Ukraine, but if Europe can't out wait the baboon for 4 years, then Europe aren't much better. If the US stops support, we still have plenty of muscle to strong arm Russia/Trump.
relsky
The baboon isn't planning to be gone in 4 years. More importantly, the baboon's handlers and masters don't intend to release their grip on power ever.
RedStarVidal
All the more reason for Europe to stand on it's own feet.
weedeewee
yeah, but surface area wise, it's easier to nuke europe and completely cripple them.
Mirrormancer
That would spell disaster for everyone - Europe has nukes too.
weedeewee
I know.
GRZMNKY
Baboons are intelligent creatures that actually care for their troop. A hamster is more like it... They would kill each other and eat the young just to get ahead
RedStarVidal
You are giving a lot of leeway for a creature that will rip your face off while eating its rivals children.
GRZMNKY
Yes...but they are highly intelligent.
Goldensands
Europe is sending billions esch months to Ukraine. From frozen Russian assets. There Is no 4 years hold out - americas democracy has ended. There will not be another genuine election.
RedStarVidal
Nha. USA has lurched to the right, but its democracy is alive and kicking. I have heard about the death of US democracy soooo many times in my lifetime. This is just US populism litè.
Goldensands
Oh look, some fascist filth still think it's somehow status quo. You are one vile, filthy failure of a person. By the time you wake up and the suffering affects you directly, know that you'll still be a nazi supporting POS and will deserve every bit of agony.
RedStarVidal
What an extremely rational analysis of someone you don't know on the Internet. I bet you're very well adjusted and not angry in the slightest.
Goldensands
Better angry at reality than arrogant in delusion. I don't know if it's the sense, the dignity or the courage you're missing, but your delusions are deeply dangerous and damming, and I have no shame in hating you for them.
MissSiesta
Did the previous governments DISMANTLE THE STATE, too?
How dumb do you have to be?
RedStarVidal
Wanna make a bet?
CatsIsTheAnswer
Europe isn't a country. In order to have a consistent foreign policy and, more specifically, a consistent militay power and strategy, we'd need to take a lot of steps towards unification. Too different interests between members to make that happen. One could hope this latest developement might be our wake up call but come on, the idea that the US was gonna do anything else than its own interest has always been stupid to anyone with eyes and ears.
RedStarVidal
I live in Bulgaria and this is pure nonsense.
CatsIsTheAnswer
If you could elaborate maybe
BobTheWeak
I'm watching our new Def Secy Pete Hegseth in a NATO press conference. He said "it's not my job to tell the leader of the free world what to negotiate, so I can't tell you what our negotiation points are". Wow.
khora
Leader of what?
truthputer
Lol. Angela Merkel (the most recent Leader of the Free World) stepped down from office in 2021. The US hasn't held that position since... well... let's say it's been a while, probably around the time there were calls for Obama's Nobel Peace Prize to be withdrawn.
trump leads nothing except a steaming pile of hatred. And if Hegseth can't say anything he should be ejected from that forum for wasting everyone's time. I'm sure he'd much prefer to be getting wasted in a gutter somewhere anyway.
Aeonika
Can someone tell me what he thinks his job actually is?
whatsisname
Facilitate murdering brown people for profit.
FoamingToad
Was going to type Fair but possibly Accurate is a more apt term.
Gerokeymaster
Judging from his tats and his talking points back when he was on Fox, Pete does it for the love of the game, and profit is just a bonus.
Bystandr
Yep, there are. The Germans understood the message, clearly, apparently, in conjunction with the mobilization and reorganization of military
Bystandr
depots the Russians have just done on their border with Europe. Seems pretty crazy on Putins part IMO with multiple fronts, but who knows?
Waschbaerkoenig
Smart move remembering that open up multiple fronts went particularly well in past european wars.
No, wait...
ukalliq
I miss Angela.
khora
You want more Russian gas dependency?
Zahnradfee
I don't. She was the chancellor of stagnation.
ukalliq
I don't disagree, but stagnation is better than regression.
Zahnradfee
Ok, when you put it like that...
AidanPrydeCork
Yeah, that's gonna go nowhere. Not when the AfD comes into Power n the next Election, which, unfortunately, is getting more and more likely, after what happened today: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/13/vehicle-driven-into-group-of-people-in-munich
stryhf
It's hard to rebuild a military when you've got a debt brake looming over any budget. The German's aversion to any debt, come hell or high water, is well known.
AidanPrydeCork
It's also that it has been going on for sooooo long. I was in the german Army more than 20 years ago by now, back in my Days, late 90's we still had some MG3's (more like MG42) that had the "Reichsadler" Stamped on them. And I also had an experience that when we were in the field for Training I received a MRE from the 40's It also still had the Reichsadler on it, only thing missing was Panzerschokolade. German Army has been skimped on for Decades by now.
henryvk
They will never hold power because nobody will build a coalition with them. Look at Austria, even their conservatives, who are far worse than ours, couldn't bring themselves to govern with the fascists.
NomDeImguerre
Until someone does. See: PVV in the Netherlands.
LavaDiver1312
Someone might, but I'm still pretty sure that it won't happen on a federal level this year. On state level, sure. But on state level, Putin is already involved in a government or two via the BSW, some weirdos who try to present themselves as socialists, but in reality they are nothing but Kremlin-devoted gremlins.
Ivain
Wouldn't be surprised if that was a false flag attack set up through an AFD or russian-run radicalization group.
Zahnradfee
I also suspected a Russian radicalization group. We've had so many attacks during the last months.
AidanPrydeCork
You and me both.
LuminoZero
Hope Germany learns from what the US fails to do and decides to just round up their Nazis and toss them in fucking prison before they steal power.
Zahnradfee
I WISH our government had the balls to do that, but they are all either conservatives or middle-of-the-road whatevers. They won't do anything.
LuminoZero
Then when AfD has protests, I hope 10x as many Anti-Fascists show up with tire irons. Nazis came there under their own power, but they should only leave there in a fucking box.
Zahnradfee
The problem is that there are always cops between the AfD and any counter-protesters. At the moment there is really not much we can do about the AfD, because as long as they are a legal party they get protected with the full force of the state. Either they are declared un-legal by the other politicians, or we need to wait until their actual policies have created many more unhappy people, particularly among the cops.
Zahnradfee
Just to illustrate what happens to active antifascists in Germany:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Lina_E.
2. https://digit.site36.net/2025/02/08/extradition-to-hungary-u">E">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Lina_E.
2. https://digit.site36.net/2025/02/08/extradition-to-hungary-unlawful-german-constitutional-court-upholds-maja-t-s-appeal/
swedeonamoose
Apperently China also want in on the negotiations, the 3 superpowers talking over Ukraines head and ignoring the EU, sure dosnt seem sus at all.
Blackfinity
Expect a wall built down the middle of it, bisecting Kiev. Trump will get the minerals and rare earths on his side, Put-on the oil and gas on the other. Love how these "leaders" assume the mantle of authority to divvy up sovereign nations like this.
AnthonyGe
I mean, Ukraine would still have to accept the deal that gets put forth. Europe would have to be involved if they could single-handedly shift the tide of the war, but we saw what happened the last time the US stopped giving them weapons.
schlummi
It has consequences for a potential peace treaty. E.g. you can't say "EU will drop sanctions if russia does XY". You also can't suggest that EU goes for a peacekeeping mission or whatever. You can try to pressure EU after a deal is made - but then EU might half ass it and send 5 soldiers and 5€ to rebuild and protect ukraine.
AnthonyGe
When did I say it didn't have consequences? I'm reiterating what Zelenskyy said himself at the WEF just a little under a month ago:
"Europe can’t afford to be second or third in line for its allies. If that happens, the world will start moving forward without Europe, and that’s a world that won’t be comfortable or beneficial for Europeans"
Europe unfortunately isn't that kind of a geopolitical force today, and even Zelenskyy has been trying to politely say that.
schlummi
Zelensky made a different point with that. Yepp, it would damage EUs global influence blabla. EU can deal with that, no biggie. But e.g. if trump expects EU to do peacekeeping and "forces" EU without including EU into talks: there is pretty much a guarantee such peace deal will fail within a few months or years and russia will run another attack. So any deal without EU can't include "EU has to do XY". Rebuilding, peacekeeping: all paid and done by US then. EU might voluntarily help, sure.
robotobo
Molotov-Ribbentrop all over again
kurvarVillain
China gets the grain, russia gets the land and Trump construction gets the contract to rebuild.
Fuck the lot of them!
You can contribute directly to the war effort through Ukrainian Post by buying tshirts and stamps or just donating to just causes.
YvesStRollerblade
Dividing up Europe like Europe divided up the world 200 years ago.
swedeonamoose
Hell maybe Europe needs to channel that 200 years ago energy and remind people why the knock knock it's europe joke exists.
HelikaformerNubisKnight9
Just had a hilarious discusdion with s.o. on here who's not aware US isn't the only superpower. Will be a wild shock when Russia and China lead Trumperica around at bulls-ring.
Tumescentpie
Pretty standard operating procedure for what we typically call the west or western powers. Replace China and Russia with England and France and rewind to the 1920s-1950s and it all starts looking like a bad reboot.
ninjafartball
https://www.tiktok.com/@socialistsanddemocrats/video/7463053432824450326?q=socialists%26democrats&t=1739466589694
SamuthNBS
Well so far Ukraine with the backing of Europe has taken on the second best military in the world and done quite well. If the US and China dive in to help Russia then the rest of Europe will have to get involved. Have you ever known a war where all of Europe is united together as one? I don't think I want to see it.
nation543
When war comes to the US, I will spurn those who flew the Nazi flag as terrorists, and will celebrate their deaths.
Cbouch4rd
World Wars have started over less. Who had the US as part of an axis of evil in 2025?
bearatrooper
Even if we saw it coming, I don't think the world is really ready for a hostile United States.
loma45
Anyone with a functioning brain on Nov 5th, 2024.
Fantelroy
>looks at american history
In 2025??
TheAnswerWasAlwaysMoreLube
dudehiemer
Russia no longer qualifies as a 'superpower' and China never did. Although, some claim China is becoming one.
tchoukiwalimou
My guess is usa isnt anymore
dudehiemer
The USA still is one, but as it loses international influence it will soon only be a global military power.
bamboolemur
how does china not count as a super power? what does count as a super power if china doesn't?
SitkaFox
Flight, laser vision, ability to summon every goose to one area instantaneously, that kind of thing.
quadraspaz1
Being really good as shovelling?
SitkaFox
Probably counted when it snowed in Florida last month.
DirtRockets
China isn't a superpower. It's a major power, but it can't project economic, military and diplomatic power globally. It ticks the economic box, almost ticks the diplomatic box, and definitely doesn't tick the military box.
IMadeAnAccountForThisFuckingSobStory
A lot of it is their ability to project military power. people treated russia like the USSR which could project power, the war in ukrane has busted that right open showing just how limited russia's force projection actually is.
and china whilst it has a big military, is actually struggling to put any peer pressure on its closest non allies. it has massive production capability but lacks the mechanised military tech that europe and USA have (and the tonnage of ships for example)
madvin
Army size and power... Chinese army has few boats, and their soldiers have never participated in a real war for generations. Their command is also not trained in the strategies.
schlummi
Usually does superpower include economic power and cultural influence. E.g hollywood movies. Otherwise would north korea maybe count as superpower. China is for sure one of the big global powers.
madvin
North Korea is not able to light its cities, its streets are totally empty of cars, and it is not even able to feed its people! You can't be a superpower without a minimum level of wealth, stability and development. This country would totally collapse without the minimum help of China, and would have never got the nuclear bomb without Iran.
dudehiemer
China cannot project military power. It is literally one of the requirements to be a superpower.
CardeasIV
Even if they just recruited 10 000 000 soldiers same way russia is now and sent them unarmed to ukraine (that is like second end of world), by the time the remnants of the force gets there in few years, they would still have number to take ukranine with bare hands, just by sheer numbers. And thats what china is all about, numbers, economicaly for the most part, but definitely no shortage of poor people they reign over
dudehiemer
*Sighs* Sure, China could do that to their neighbors. But, China does not have the logistical capability to do that to Brazil. That is one of the main criteria to be considered a superpower. The ability to send your military to perform LSCO anywhere in the world.
bamboolemur
Maybe back in the 1980s. Today we're in 2025. They have the 1st or 2nd most powerful military in the world.
madvin
First?!! Absolutely not !!! And by far!!
ElusiveThing
1st? Not a chance.
madvin
Chinese army has too few boats, and their soldiers have never participated in a real war for generations. Their command is also not trained in the strategies.
dudehiemer
China is unable to send aircraft, ground forces and their Navy to the other side of the world and conduct military operations. China can't even resupply their naval ships at sea or conduct nigh time flight operations from their carriers. That is what projecting military power entails. While they have some influence in poorer countries, they are not a superpower yet.
MeestowKitty
On paper, but their military has never been tested, and more importantly they lack the blue water naval, and logistics capability to project those forces.