inkican
67389
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I'm so glad that people felt seen when they read this, I know I did. I try to write and tell stories that make you feel seen, too. They're free this week, feel free to grab yourself one on Smashwords: https://inkican.com/smashwords-spring-scifi-free-short-stories/
fearghul
Where does a commodore vic 20 put me other than "old"?
DrewThe3DPrinterGuy
ThatGuyWhoIsSkepticalOfEverything
As someone who daily drives Linux (░▒▓█ 𝓘 𝓾𝓼𝓮 𝓕𝓮𝓭𝓸𝓻𝓪, 𝓑𝓣𝓦 █▓▒░), maintains a personal Mastodon server on Linux, and maintains my entire family’s portfolio/resume websites with associated emails on custom domains, all just for fun, they aren’t wrong.
unluckyandbored
I first started on an Apple IIe at school, then eventually we got a DOS PC at home, and then Macs in high school.
Wolfos
At least Mac users know what files are. The real issue is ChromeOS, which is often used in schools. It abstracts away most core computer functionality and provides nothing but a webbrowser. It's completely inadequate for teaching IT skills.
nwehehehe
i grew up with and still use mac OS - i'm familiar enough with windows to navigate it but it's not my preferred OS - and stuff not working on mac actually forced me to learn more skills compared to if i'd grown up using windows (using and troubleshooting wine, setting up VMs/bootcamp, etc)... that being said i *am* autistic, so...
Toqom
I was raised in an apple //e and Macintosh in highschool, I graduated in 1999. I barely paid attention, I am now an IT person, running my own company making websites, setting up networks and doing physical installs. I primarily work on windows as I'm a gamer but my web servers are centos and my NAS is also Linux
HelpfulCorn
Dumb. I learned on the original 1984 Mac, learned UNIX in college, and started my programming career on Windows.
billycakers
Had apples at school but pc at home
mike13815
Apple gave American schools (today's equivalent of) billions of dollars in technology over decades simply to ensure an entire generation would grow up without basic tech literacy. It worked. If you keep people in a walled garden long enough, the learning curve to a better world will seem insurmountable.
MrsMeltingCrayons
Yes, I'm sure their goal was an entire generation without tech literacy. Their goal couldn't have been, like, getting a huge market share or becoming the standard/familiar to people. It must have been a big conspiracy about walled gardens and preventing social growth, not fucking profit like every company wants. Jesus, does everything have to be a conspiracy? They wanted to be standard in people's minds so they could make money. It's not that deep.
mike13815
...are you not capable of putting two and two together to see tech literacy means "knowing how things work outside the apple ecosystem". It's a walled garden for a reason, and everything apple can make "unique" to their devices means the universal standards the other 90% of brands have specifically agreed to and negotiated seem foreign and not worth the bother to children of apple.
MrsMeltingCrayons
Jesus, it's been a while since I've run into such an anti-apple lunatic. Defining tech literacy through the lens of ONE company? Get a grip. Yes, they wanted to be standard, they wanted a functional monopoly, they wanted money, LIKE ALL COMPANIES. You're acting like they're a *unique* evil for partaking in run-of-the-mill evil capitalism. Before you accuse me of being a fanboy, I've never owned an iPhone and Apple computers make fuck all sense to me.
mike13815
You keep suggesting my position is that it wasn't about money. You are incorrect and have fundamentally misunderstood. You suggest my position is that they're uniquely evil. You are incorrect and have fundamentally misunderstood. You have suggested the scope of my statement of "tech literacy means" is global and not confined to this comment thread. You are incorrect and have fundamentally misunderstood. I could go on but man, it appears you're having an argument with a fictional person instead.
feltenix
I don't explain my setup to people because it is so beyond them. When I say I run a Linux host with a Windows virtual machine most people go glassy eyed stare back at me. That is without any of the technical problems or issues I had to overcome.
dronir
I went from DOS to Windows to Linux to Mac, and I've been a Mac user for 20 years now, while also running various Linux servers on the side.
sothisishowashitpostfeelslike
I used a Macintosh before they were cool. That's how hipster I am.
Type17
I started with Macs in the early 90's, never used Windows, always used and recommended (and maintained) Macs to/for friends and family, and now in my 50's I've recently hacked my 2013 iMac to run the latest MacOS (it runs as well as my wife's 2020 iMac which uses that version natively, BTW), and I've just set up an SDN LAN with PoE CCTV and a NAS, and a Home Assistant install with 193 devices, but I still haven't played with Windows - do I qualify for the study?
djevelen
I grew up with my dad bringing home his Macintosh Classic II from work for my brother and I to play on, my elementary school was outfitted with... Color Classics, but its been like more than 30 years since then so my memory is a bit fuzzy. We eventually got a family computer from Price Club, a Compaq desktop, after that, I started building my own windows machines.
Greyeyes1973
APPLE II at school, along side a Commodore 64 at home. First PC I built was a 286 in the early 90s from parts scavenge from discarded computers on trash days in Brooklyn. Only thing I bought was a 40 MEG hard drive at a PC show. I currently have 2 PCs, a macbook pro and iMac, and a laptop and 4 raspberry pi units running Linux. Plus a work macbook, and 2 ipads. (One work one personal) yes I'm in IT, yes I'm old af, and I don't trust smart tech or AI because of how companies use it.
TsubakiTragic
always wondered where my kid bro got off to.
wpfp976
We had Apple at school too for some reason. Apple II > Mac Plus > LCII > LCIII > PowerMac. Haven't touched another apple product since.
Zeddicuszull
Yeah for my senior year of high school I got certified in microsoft office since that is obviously what is going to be used in the workplace and here I am at 38 years old and my 20 year old intern doesn't know basic excel automations like the shift+arrow keys select or the doubleclick autofill calculations.
p7zjnq9gei9000
I started on an Apple IIe. Still have it.
FlatPlutoSociety
Number Munchers, baby.
n0n53n53
That's where I started too. I wish I still had one to play around with. I might turn one of my many Raspberry Pies into an Apple II emulator
p7zjnq9gei9000
Check EBay- they’re not expensive
RichardPotato
Kaypro CP/M has entered the chat
Gindipple
But we had commodore 64s
manystripes
Mine's still in the garage but I lost all the floppies, which probably would have gone bad by now anyway. I really should try to find a way to load something by playing mp3s into the tape interface or something
SteileThese
Got a Ultimate II Cartridge before they went out of stock during covid and never looked back. Nifty little thing.
Gindipple
I have the opposite, a shoebox full of floppies, but no computer. And yes I have high doubts they would still work.
marthafarquar
YouMayFindThisMildlyInteresting
Mercenarity
former IT here. imo the 'pc master race' stuff is a bit 'high-on-their-own-supply' of some millennials who constantly hold themselves above elders and juniors alike. but remembering stuff like what 'cd\' does or how special boot settings were used to play doom is low-bar tech literacy as viewed through a very narrow window. a tool-chauvinist being able to assemble a simple table saw doesn't make them a carpenter. for most computer users, computers are just a means to an end. and that's ok.
Mercenarity
all this snark about how the Young People can only do smartphones is all very boomerish of post-boomers. "ha, you don't know how to repair a house," well maybe you should have passed down some of your secrets. or maybe not. i'm sure there are less sketchy tutorials available on youtube that don't involve yelling at your kid for confusing terminology they weren't given a study guide for.
bobstrange
Current IT here. No dude its got worse, Im dealing with teens who don't even know how to operate their smartphones either beyond browser - that is if they know what a browser is. A lot of the time I tell them to type in to the address bar along the top, they search in the google app instead. No one teaches them typing skills either so when they get to a keyboard they manually press each key with like two fingers. Plug and play is both a blessing and a curse.
Shawnthegirl
Started on Macintosh machines in grade school before there was windows, then swapped to windows machines till high school- then we had windows in computer lab and those colorful iMacs for Yearbook - THEN we had both in lab.
THEN I had a windows machine at home, but my good friend had a Mac, so I still kept swapping...
I've decent technology literacy. I can usually figure something out without instruction. I'm known as a problem solver.
I hate most OSs because they keep taking away functions.
ThomasTheWankEnglne
"discluded"
sunnytater1
Name checks out.
Thesaya
Disclude: To exclude, not include; to remove from inclusion.
"Please disclude me from further discussions on this topic."
ThomasTheWankEnglne
exclude is the correct and more common usage.
Thesaya
More common =/= correct.
ThomasTheWankEnglne
you =/= correct.
SkinnerTBD
So, would I go by Apple IIe we had at school or the Odyssey² we had at home?
Sesquey
Tricked out with Dual floppy drives? So hot…
Dimension09
Ah, so you grew up bi? Idk how that will impact results.
Leithoa
You get ignored by twice as many people....oh, you meant OSs.
ProcrastinatingWork
Both! And congrats on the career in the tech industry
IainG101
I had Apple at school and Windows at home/as a laptop. I remember HATING how hidden all the Mac settings were compared to Win XP.
StudioDerpster
"I can't do that, Dave"
MelfsAcidArrow
I mean I came home to a C64 or Amiga 500 so … yeah
VodkaReindeer
Those will be missing from the selection menu
IHaveTheWeirdestBonerNow
As a daily Linux user; they’re not wrong.
aqueueforyou
Ikr? I wasn't even mad
MentalUproar
So to distract myself from -gestures broadly- I decided to blow up my home server. I replaced the board in it, switched back to archlinux, switched to the experimental file system bcachefs, said all containers must have absolutely bare-bones privileges, encryption will be a thing everywhere it is and is not needed, and we’re going back to Intel for this one mostly out of mercy. I created a challenge for myself.
I consider myself thoroughly distracted and very angry right now
TsubakiTragic
Yeah, Arch on a server is probably not the most prudent move... too bleeding-edge even if restricted to the LTS kernel. Can I recommend something like Debian stable... so solid you'll fall asleep during the boot sequence.
MentalUproar
Arch gets new shit fast. I want to learn new shit. That’s probably the easiest way to do it.
Poplap
Or could compile it and install it under /opt. You get a nice stable base and if it breaks you only have one folder to nuke to get back to normal (and maybe a few paths to reset)
MentalUproar
Actually I have snapshots on this system. If something breaks I simply revert to a previous snapshot. Super simple. I can make a mess learning a new thing, revert to the previous working state, then apply what I learned to do it right.
dpflug
It's hardly Debian Stable, but I've had remarkably few problems running Arch for almost a decade. I only recently moved to GuixSD just to make things more interesting. :)
TsubakiTragic
whoa... cue 007 theme.
nopenopittynope2806
I want to know the hypothesis.
ELKronos
Yeah, I'm confused by it too. Technically older millennials grew up using Macs at school (Apple cornered the education market at the time and sold computers to schools at better price points) while younger generations went to school with Windows computers. Granted most kids - even to this day - have Windows PCs at home. It's just older millennials may not have initially had computers at home so their first exposure to a computer may have been a Mac
E39M5S62
Grew up on older Mac systems in the early 90s. Switched to BeOS in the late 90's, then to FreeBSD, then to OS X, and now Linux for the last ~10 years.
Vectron
BeOS, now that's a name I haven't heard in a long while. Always thought that it was a neat one. Will have to look if the Haiku project for rewriting it is still going.
E39M5S62
Haiku is still going - they just had a new beta release a few months ago. It's really quite solid these days. Give it a shot and get ready to relive late 90's computing!
thelastmelt
It’s still one of the best looking!
MightyIink
Kids learned to fix and reinstall their computers when they wanted to play games really bad. They couldn't do that with Macs.
RooGryphon
yep i remember doing that. also know your irqs
RooGryphon
memmaker
ShadyEsperanto
I expected to see someone else say this earlier. You can't build or upgrade macs. I learned how to build a PC because it was a cheaper way to get a better PC for gaming. And it's not even that macs didn't play games; once they went to the imac build, it was a massive pain in the ass to do ANYTHING with a mac yourself
Meanwhile my nephew is about to graduate with a degree in computer science, and I remember helping him build his first PC 10 years ago. Because he wanted to play games
Septcanmat
I upgraded plenty of macs with my dad when I was growing up, including swapping the CRT on an eMac. Anybody who thinks you couldn’t do that stuff on macs when we were kids suffers from tech illiteracy.
ShadyEsperanto
wow, coming in a bit hot there, huh?
and no, the first generation of imacs and emacs weren't bad. the flat panels were super annoying. and they were all, imo, not worth the effort when i could pay someone to do it for me.
TheLookAndFeelMUSIC
With a Mac you at least learned to set up a Windows partition to play games.
nihiltres
You’re dating yourself there to the Intel Mac era; you couldn’t install Windows on a 68k or PowerPC Mac.
Septcanmat
You absolutely could get windows emulators on PowerPC Macs.
nihiltres
Emulation != installation.
Septcanmat
Ah, sorry, I see now. The person claimed they had a partition, which definitely wouldn’t have supported a windows install.
ralphmelish
Tech illiteracy is a real problem for the current teens. There is zero effort needed to operate tech and most don't understand it anymore. In my hypothesis there was a peak of computer literacy with people born between ~1980 and ~2000 that we'll only see again if something hugely changes like the change from analog to digital. Maybe quantum tech might be that but i highly doubt it.
[deleted]
[deleted]
ralphmelish
Yeah maybe a little earlier, I'm referencing literacy specifically for all the stuff that's current right now. many of the early adopters are already out of their learning phase since SSL became a thing.
Mack1986
They dint even understand folders. It's insane. Boomers are more useful at work
arajad
A backhanded compliment if ever there was, but as a boomer I'll take it. I learned file structures before they were called folders. I still have a single-platter removable disk pack from an IBM 1130; it's the size of an old hubcap and stored roughly 90K bytes.
Canzel
We have college students that are discovering ctrl+c ctrl+v....
CubeyAlchemist
Yep. Teacher here. College level computing students that don't know how to find a file they just saved on their computer.
DaithiUK
That's fair enough though, because Pokemons New Final V2 (copy of) V3.doc isn't on their computer, it's on OneDrive.
Tortoiseshell11
It really is, I recently graduated college and watched engineering students struggle with what I would consider basic computer skills.
imnotinthewitnessprotectionprogram
Now, what the fuck do I do with these cursive skills. Literally useless
InkGoat
I teach engineering freshmen and I can tell you that high school graduates have literally never used a computer before.
High schools use tablets with learning apps, and the students don't ever leave the app. Nobody knows what a folder is, or where their file saved to, or what that even means. Start button? Click-and-drag? No clue.
And you can completely forget about anybody using Word or Excel.
loveisallwereallyhave
Sounds like feeding kids sawdust and soda is having the desired effect.
netutoring
Yep, I thought my students would blow my tech knowledge away. They knew nothing. Meanwhile, here I am, with no formal computer technology training, talking about RAM, SSDs vs HDDs....and I swear I was speaking Greek to them.
innagaddavidababy
And horses too. Too few people know how to care for horses.
theflyboy87
I’d subscribe to that. I always joke that we are also bilingual in that we speak tech and can still have a human conversation not involving electronics more effectively than the pre and subsequent generations.
sunnytater1
I remember I was... 12? 13? Trying to figure out my PCs BIOS. Nowadays I don't think many people under 20 know what a BIOS even is
somnif
That said, god damn do I love UEFI these days. An actual interface! Amazing!
KinetoPlay
To be fair, percentage-wise not that many people over twenty know what a BIOS is either.
(Not many people exactly 20 either, it's not a magic outlier)
SmoeAhsolse
We can't publish this.
Why not?
Because we haven't found anyone at all born in 2005 that doesn't know what a BIOS is. It'll never make it past peer review.
[Phone rings]
Yeah? Oh, um ok, I'll be right there.
There's someone downstairs from some government agency that somehow found out about our unpublished study. I don't know about you, but I'm going to try to disappear into the woods for a decade or two.
SomeGuy389
Or for that matter that on modern PCs, that UEFI has largely replaced the BIOS.
0xDEC0DE
Most people won't even run into a BIOS anymore, EFI has been the standard for years now, and it's even more confusing.
GCRust
I largely consider myself a tech-Luddite any more, but interacting with the younger generations makes me realize that while I *am* a Luddite in a lot of respects, I still know enough about computers and OSes to do basic troubleshooting which puts me head and shoulders above those coming after me.
Like I have literally had to explain the concept of "Settings" to a twenty year old.
IndependenceHallPhiladelphiaPA
the existence of personalized social media like instagram and facebook demonstrates that tech illeteracy is a real problem for idiots of all ages that forgot the lesson of "never share your personal information over the internet."
SoraHjort
I don't know how it is now, but back in the 90s and early 00s around here, there was a lot of focus on learning how to use computers, including back in middle school putting everyone in my grade through typing lessons. So atleast back then there was a drive from top to bottom to get the tech literacy up for potential jobs.
GorillaPowers
I repair servers. The adminis don't care about actual repairs. They just want new parts and don't even understand what firmware is. They just think new parts means no problems
POTUSBrown
I remember learning in school how to use the internet. Had to type everything in, or in would work. http:// You had to know where you were going to get there. Lol
LespritDeLescalier22
Well, you’ve changed the quantum outlook just by bringing it up
CommodusLeitdorf
40 years of GUI simplification will do that. Kids today don't know the struggle of editing their AUTOEXEC.bat file to get games to run on their 386, and it shows.
hotrodny
Male, born in 72 here. There was no windows when I got into computers. Only MS-DOS. Things wasn't user friendly. We had to figure stuff out. All the way. That's the reason why i know the stuff i do today.
Hell, young ppl today doesn't even know what a file or a folder is. But I don't think it's their fault. They get friggin iPads in school when they rather should get a PC and learn programming.
LordHosk
Kids understand technology, they just understand different technology.
Ask a Millennial to operate a foot pedal sewing machine or a telegraph machine they would be hopeless.
"But kids today" yeah, kids every generation are different, thats how kids work, they learn what we teach them. When we stopped having shop and home ecc class kids stopped learning how to build things and cook for themselves.
PandAnomoly
My middle school installed Mac computers, but everyone had a windows computer at home, which meant half of us simultaneously began our hate for apple early, and the others (who didn't have PCs at home) learned the idiot-proof computing.
emu314159127001
Earlier, if you used DOS or something from commodore you're a lot more OG than just windows 95. Which, yes, ran on top of DOS, but was generally easier. Except sound drivers
GlutenFreeCocaineWaffles
This was a realization that hit me like a truck in the past month; for years now I just naturally assumed current teenagers would be at least/more tech savvy than my generation on average. Turns out that knowing how to navigate file/folder directories on a hard drive is no longer common knowledge.
tooomanystevesgotbanned
My theory: Because families that used to afford 1 household PC now don't any any PCs, because they have to buy a smartphone for EACH kid.
Ivalicenyan
My personally theory was that the need/want for piracy and trouble shooting my own OS problems is what taught me my skills
quzar
I think the issue is significantly more that it's rare to have a PC anymore nowadays. Not in the sense of 'Windows' vs 'Mac' but a 'Personal Computer'. What people tend to have is a terminal system that provides web browsing, multimedia access, word processing, and games through walled gardens and locked down access channels.
There isn't much of an avenue for meaningful general literacy anymore. It goes straight from "I can reset my own account passwords" to "Professional" with little between.
disposableairman
I will argue that cars are the same for millennial and gen x folks. If it just works, after all.
dasklaus
I have a (genuinely intelligent and curious) friend, 22 years old, who I taught Ctrl+F to. No basic understanding of file structure, memory, software vs hardware etc, nothing. Some people don't interact with technology beyond "using that one app to do that one thing" - she can send email and layout in PowerPoint, but she doesn't understand the tech any more than a passenger on a train understands train engines.
ghostly69
and why not a change from digital to analog? You could understand again the time on analog watches, you could relearn to write a letter and put it into somw red box to be taken by specific people and brougth to the one it was addressed to...and so on...and yeah, I am THAT old
CommanderBunBun37
Is this that different from the car industry? I have the impression, which could totally be wrong, that my boomer parents and their generation “all” knew how to work on their own cars. Whereas, my millennial generation never had to/ were never taught. It was just tech that was always there and many of us are helpless if anything goes wrong.
SilverFish0
It was fun to see it all work. Not really the case now, it just works out of the box. There is little incentive.
powwerbottom
I've got a ten-yr-old and can confirm
zoeytg
I think about how as technology continues to become more complex while requiring little personal understanding to make use of it. We are further removed about the process of how things are made. Specially when lower skilled work is further automated. There will be a time that to make a thing will require a program to do it. That a human won't have the full step process in how something is made anymore.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
I was born before 1980 (young Gen X) and there was a noticeable drop in tech literacy of our new hires starting around 2005 or so. And it's been going down ever since. Anyone who used computers in the 80s had to really learn what they were doing, and there was very little reference material so you had to just try things yourself. I've been working with a new hire this week, I showed her how to do something in one of our tools, and then the next day she told me she couldn't figure it out. She /1
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
didn't recognize the button to open the menu. I mean, I get that the "hamburger menu" is a little out of date, but she has an IT degree and worked at Amazon for 5 years in a tech role. She couldn't just click around and figure it out? Every year there's a noticeable drop in the willingness to just try things, and I think that's a big part of what's blocking them from learning more. /2
huffnpuff72
I had good technical knowledge of computers and how software worked. These days if it doesn't work I pretty much walk away because it's supposed to be easy to use. The software does everything behind the scenes. Install wizards were beginning of the end
slotskim127
What’s worse is that not only are they computer illiterate, their writing skills, mostly just common pencil texts are an absolute disgrace
ChikaChickaBowWow
I work in a company with a lot of different branches of engineering and we have very skilled software engineers and electro engineers that do embedded digital technology. They absolutely know how stuff works. But back when I was young (turning 44 this year) computers were for the few and you had no reason to use them if the device itself didn't spark an interest so people using computers back then wanted to know how the *computer* worked. It's observation bias. Nerds are still a thing.
ralphmelish
It definitely is at least a little observation bias, but nerds for the actual computer technology aren't nearly as plentiful anymore
ralphmelish
Can someone please do a master thesis on this? I'd really love some hard evidence.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
Its very annoying with my son... But it's alot my fault at his age I had to setup the home network and everything if I wanted to use the internet. However as a parent I don't want to let him have that kind of control over the network and even his devices....
So I want him to be able to do it.... But don't want him to be able to do it.
Parenting is weird.
insanumingenium
Adulthood requires a level of comfort with dangerous tools, not everyone needs the same ones, but some (like computers) are ubiquitous. Yeah, he may do something stupid, but proficiency is only available with experience. Of all the dangerous tools he will need in his life, there is very little danger here. It’ll be easier to teach him those skills before adulthood, and you can provide context and guidance. You do you of course, but my son will have experience with every tool I can get him to use
CptCaboose
Yeah, but what reason would they have ? I wanted my Xbox 360 with the wifi adapter to let me play halo 3 multiplayer. I had to learn what port forwarding was, how to setup the DHCP server on my router to set my Xbox at a fixed IP address. Nowadays, these things aren't required because online access is a requirement for everything. So it's made to work right out of the box
tempestfoxthree
Probably because you were lucky if the tech from that era worked all the time. You had to learn how more about it or you were shit out of luck if it simply decided it didn't wanna work anymore.
houcivilecon
Born 81 may have been peak access + practice for understanding computers.
Born 89 my sister didn’t have to understand shit
ralphmelish
I might skew that range a little in my head as I had some real computer literate upbringing and got into the field early. (Born 91)
Bhargo
all those people amazed their five year olds could use their tech never seemed to understand that no, it was the engineers who were the smart ones. they made it so simple literal children could use it.
Poplap
I mean it's a little bit of both, kids know how to click the buttons to get to their favorite game or tiktok in the same way older generations could use the TV or even the VHS. Repeating the movements their parents showed them (the monkey in us) and because it's not that complicated to do (no reasoning or planning skills needed)
Crymson83
And yet in my helpdesk days I still had to walk adults through the most basic of concepts on their phones.
n0n53n53
Your dates are skewed a bit. People born between mid-70s and late-80s are the peak. By the time kids born in 2000 were doing anything with computers iPads and spmart phones were doing everything for them.
POTUSBrown
Early nineties hear, I didn't have a smart phone until after I graduated from college.
ssshield
I do think it extends to the 90s too. As a mid-90s kid I messed around on our Windows 95 PC (and later XP) a lot and learned got extremely tech literate by the time I was 14. I was tech and network support for my family from then on unfortunately
HsuDoNihm
Mid-70s started with shit like Apple II-e, though. Mac wasn't a thing for a long time.
satanicblackmagic
mid 90s, started with a mac performa 636cd run system 7. ipods and mac os x werent a thing for a long time
n0n53n53
I was born in the mid 70s and started with an Apple iie when I was about 8-9. The Macintosh was released in 1984, so those of us born in the mid-70s were around 10.
HsuDoNihm
I was late 70s, so I defer to your expertise in this matter.
MrImmaculate
Nah bro. Pull your date range forward a decade or two. Sure we millennials can use it and fix it, Gen X BUILT it
ralphmelish
Kind of true, but if it comes to understanding how the *current* tech works the peak is somewhere around that. I wouldn't try to compete with a real neckbeard in TTL logic design or assembly coding but chances are he never touched JavaScript.
dashers
Yeah, but they didn't need to use it, the world was entirely analogue and tech was expensive. It's only the bored Millennials who existed in high enough numbers and who had access to cheap enough tech that was useful but also hard to get to work.
Gindipple
We lived in the golden years. Everything is disposable these days. Component level electronics knowledge is rare to find these days. Hard to understand how it's sustainable, but here we are.
Iwouldbenick
Read that as golden eye years. Still works in my opinion.
Goldensands
Oh no that's easy. It's not. Much like most other parts of modern capitalist society.
Mlatimudan
Components are not fun anymore. Back when every new cpu gen had 20% improvement. Rams changed technology not just speeds. GPU had nice battles and tech. Mouses went from “I need a tooth pick” to “there is a hair in my laser”. Monitors went from forklift certified weight to normal humans can carry them. Keyboards went from loud to silent now back to loud. Chasis went from cool power buttons to i have 2 fans. EA went from ruining westwood studios to ruining every good studio.
SwaghettiYologneseWithMemeballs
The way you phrased that makes it sound like Westwood wasn't good
undeadlemur420
Still play the Earth & Beyond emulator
LupusLilium
I tried to find a single keyboard key scissor hinge, 'official' support was basically 'we sell neither the individual parts nor a full replacement keyboard' look elsewhere. Like WTAF if the OEM doesn't sell replacements or parts then what the fuck good are they?
TacoPoweredHelicopter
Not sure what you are talking about. The early computer age tech was crap and you were constantly replacing shit and upgrading. It's amazing how much more robust computer parts and electronics are now. My TV's are now ancient like 15 years old... When I was a kid they lasted like 2 years before they broke or their picture just went to shit and you could not open the cathodray tube to fix that.
I would agree cell phones are designed to die.... But overall it's much better.
TacoPoweredHelicopter
Just realized my PC is 6 years old with like almost no issues (ram stick died this year) . As a kid I was constantly replacing parts or trying to fix shit.
That's why kids don't know as much, they don't have to do it anymore... I had no choice. The router just works.... Ya no 25 years ago it was a constant battle with the damn things.
You smoking that "good old days" crack.
FancyFeastAdvocate
I think that's his point. It wasn't 'the good old days crack.'. We actually learned how to troubleshoot and fix things because things broke or had security issues with a bunch of viruses.
That being said, it could be 'old man yells at clouds' style - I don't know how to fix my car... But it's 15 years old and I never had an issue other than minor scheduled maintenance
voydkastor
Started building my own PCs back in '98. The only thing I e ever had reliability issues with back then were HDDs, my first being something like 80mb lol
TacoPoweredHelicopter
Good for you... My hardware was not so robust.
psych0bunneh
Just out of college, I worked at Lowe's. One day, I was replacing the lightbulb signage because we were starting to sell LED R base bulbs. The signage advertised that they could last up to 20 years and, since I was 22yrs old at the time, I remember thinking "It's entirely possible that children will grow up having never seen anyone change a lightbulb and think you need an electrician to do it for you."
Gindipple
Except you're lucky if you get 2 years out of them
moscomule
I’m a technology teacher and I’d love some pointers on what you think would help with this. I’m trying my best but not sure of the best practices.
Ginoawesomesauce
In my dream class, I'd want to focus on tips and tricks to be more efficient. For instance, figuring out how to copy paste and then copy something new and be able to paste multiple things in a PC was a game changer I didn't discover til a few years ago. Spend a week on that, then Mac, then Linux. How to keep my files better organized; Dropbox, Cloud, Drive etc. There are so many options and platforms and OS, I want an introduction to EVERYTHING to choose which is best for me. But then I'm 42 lol
moscomule
I’m trying with things like this. File types (in brief), uploading, organizing, shortcuts, how to use spreadsheets and word processors, some light coding - there’s so much to do and not loads of time. I’m going to spend the summer coding a game myself so I can better teach some of that, hopefully with the idea of having kids make their own games too.
dashers
The problem was you needed to understand the tech in order to reach the goal. Want to have sound in a game? Well there's a note in the manual about your IRQs and your config.sys, and you've got nobody to ask so you just have to start trying. Many people failed, but the ones the succeeded, they got the biggest dopamine hit. There's no time for that tinkering between instant access to the Internet. I don't know how you artificially recreate that.
ralphmelish
I have this idea in my head that you can take any "modern" thing like e.g. a picture on Instagram and ask "how" as deep as you want to go.
"What needs to happen for my selfie to be liked by my friend?"
"How does the touchscreen know where the finger is?" -> cap. touch
"How did the picture get to the screen?" -> TFT/OLED tech
"How did the image file get to the phone?" -> http(s)
I guess you can see where I'm going with this.
Ihadsexwithadragonlastnight
Students are snappy with tools they want to learn. Technology now is slimmed down so core functions are fast and easy. Students/Children can pick up new social media and adjacent apps that follow their UI philosophies. It’s graphic design centric in how it utilizes colors and focuses to capture and direct attention.
Using windows as an example: the control panel still exists but many of its most used functions have been migrated to the settings tab.
Ihadsexwithadragonlastnight
Advanced use and troubleshooting can be a pain because deeper functions and tools are obscured by windows forcing users into a one size fits all settings approach.
For your students; ask them about file structures. What about navigating systems through terminal? What can you do with terminal in boot environments like mac or windows? Have they ever accessed registries? What are registry keys and why do they matter? How about tpm and secureboot?
Ihadsexwithadragonlastnight
Heres some core questions and confusion I encounter with students daily from elementary school through high school:
I didn’t charge my Chromebook because it had 20% battery last night. My phone can last with that!
How did you know what I looked up!?
What is a cache? Why do I have to wipe it?
I spilled water but cleaned it up quickly, why wont my CB work?
Why can I still type without a keycap?
Woah, how did you open that terminal thing? What is a “ping”
Ihadsexwithadragonlastnight
It’s the why and how of computers.
Students I’ve worked with love when I break open file structures and show them what I am doing as an IT admin. Or when I crack open an old desktop to show them how to build a pc or what the parts are and how they’ve changed. Sometimes I have students help me repair Chromebooks and explain to them all the different pieces. Show them why the breaks happen the way they do.
moscomule
These are all good questions to posit and look for answers to. Thank you.
aducksayswhat
(xennial for context) I think the challenge is how you see the computer as a tool. A tool does/assists with a task, and most people don't screw around with a tool for the sake of it. Computers have become more streamlined in letting people do their task which I think most people would agree is good, and you don't need to screw around as a base requirement to accomplish that task any more.
ralphmelish
True, the only problem is that the same people fail miserably as soon as the tool changes even slightly.
KinetoPlay
Also, for profit reasons, the tool is changed every six months. Not improved, just changed.
judyblue
Agreed. I think having an analog version of the task in your memory means you approach the digital tool differently. Typing a paper was the more efficient way, compared to writing by hand. Digital photography doesn't have the same restrictions as film. Google is faster than your library's card catalog. If you grow up with the tool that makes everything "easier" readily available, I bet it's hard to appreciate it as much.
aducksayswhat
It's similar to cars, it used to be that you'd need to know a lot more 'under the hood' to keep them running, but cars have been refined in reliability and the complexity to get the efficiency they have now that's not as reasonable to have as "you need to know this to operate a car" or own the tooling to fix if it breaks
Cookie0fPower
I like seeing these perspectives
Nosdarb
Computers didn't become more reliable, like cars. They were subverted. The average piece of technology does not serve it's user. It exists as a tool to transfer wealth to its parent company. Any user benefit is incidental.
aducksayswhat
I don't remember needing to reinstall my OS every few months like I used to, setup/drivers being extremely quick or every time some program crashes it BSODs and takes down the whole system. On non-desktop computers they're even more of a reliable appliance - which is what people want.
Nosdarb
People always bring up OS installs, but I only experienced them when I was doing things that I knew in advance were likely to be problematic. Anyway, your mobile devices hate you and would sell your soul for corn chips. They function exactly well enough to siphon money out of you, and no better.
gesel
I would argue that the consequence is that people do not and generally cannot understand how the tech they use works, to my mind a continuum, not a quantum break as most people can't explain how a switch or a lever works or how it might be used differently than they were shown. But that digital devices aren't tinker friendly is to a meaningful degree offset by FOSS, by friendly programming languages, yes by AI coding assistance, and by tinker friendly hardware like Pi or ATTiny devices.
DanFendi
I'm government tech support. I talk to all ages in my day to day, and the generational gaps are staggering. Boomers have a handle on basic Windows concepts pretty well because they've been using them since 3.1. GenX and Millennials are fine. Gen Z, though...they look at Windows PCs like they're antikythera mechanisms.
Arcygenical
Yep, and it's not just teens. I Just built my GF her first PC ever this year. She's turning 24. Then again, I don't even bother trying to use my phone screen, so we all have our thing.
NinjablazerZero
Building a PC is a completely different subject and not the same as being tech literate, especially now. 20 years ago it might have been easy to learn how to build your first PC because enthusiats would happily help you. These days, resources for learning are terrible, search algorithms make finding good ones next to impossoble, and trying to talk to other people online tends to get you assholes and elitist gatekeepers who complain that you didn't just google it instead of answering questions.
ralphmelish
Yep, had to learn a bunch to build a current Gen gaming rig....being computer literate down to the bit is my main job, I still needed to read some documentation to know what will work together.
Arcygenical
You have misunderstood. I mean it's the first PC she's ever used. She wasn't aware people even built PCs and was shocked when I was able to build her one with garbage from my storage room. Everything she owned a touch screen i-device up until now. I'm teaching her the absolute basics including "how to install programs" and "what is a directory" etc. And she's doing well, all things considered.
HsuDoNihm
Phone screens are for swearing at.
Evi1Gav
Peak is basically gen X. Essentially grew up with the home computer revolution and the move to PCs . . . and are still salty about new devices just . . . saving things. Give me a fucking folder structure you bastard's.
TripleDane
I would argue slightly before that. if you haven't lived with command line you are starting to fall behind the curve with IT skills
gesel
But.. but who doesn't spend most of their day at a command line? Is that really true? Who would pay people to click around with a mouse? Why?
ralphmelish
Maybe a few years before that, yes.
FordyP
I'd say growing up having your first interaction with computers 1980-2000, so probably born 70 to 90ish. If you were born in 2000 your first computer might have been windows 7 or OSX
KingOfTheImgurians
So....what does it mean if I - someone I know - started on TRS-80s learning BASIC in 1983? Asking for a friend. I'm a fellow young one. How are you doing, fellow kids? Does anyone have strong opinions on ibuprofen or the necessity of sleeping with a leg pillow? Because I sure don't. Because I'm very young.
norrinraddsboard
Ahh the ole Trash 80
AllTheKitties
I started on Ms dos a bit later.
Ibuprofen will tear a whole in your stomach if you take too much (costochondritis got me there). And knee pillows are absolutely critical. But I've had both those issues since middle school, so I'm still young, too.
missiletowe12
I, too, am far younger than a Trash 80 system and never used a cassette for software. How bout them poketmonters, eh? And what it means is you were the kid in all those ads saying, nuy a computer, your kids will go to good colleges.
eotty
Im so old we had a laptop with wheels.
inkican
I, also a young one, salute this post for helping all to recognize how young we are.
emu314159127001
Trash80 ftw!
Infinias
Richter12x2
My friend started with Basic on Commodore 64. They also upgraded their Tandy from 512k to 640k of RAM by actually slotting in little IC chips, not sticks of chips.
Mperrotta913
I absolutely hate that if I don't use a knee pillow my back gets all fucky....I'm still in my 30s for ficks sake
ConstantBitRate
I too have yeeted things to places and am very young. I don't even understand what a leg pillow is or how much it can alleviate back and knee pain, which i don't have. I saw a TI99/4a computer once on my desk- er my local museum once it looked very complicated and I am glad I learned to use a *checks notes* Microsoft Windows 10 pc.
JCDenton10
Man, same. I was learning BASIC on an Apple II around that same time.
PressedRatAndWarthog
Some of us are so young that we can't take ibuprofen because it increases our blood pressure and we're already taking meds to lower that.
skooksies
How dare you bring my leg pillow into this
spinbutton3
I'm bringing my Turbo Pascal to the game. Also my k-tape and a couple of ice packs
Itsverywindytoday
Tandy 1000 for me with good Ole -deskmate-
p7zjnq9gei9000
Ah, vitamin i
scottcanoni
I wrote my first program on a TRS-80. Still have it actually.
Maviyakuku
Youngings are so overrated
Eiladar
I know a guy like that from around the same time, but it was a Commodore Vic-20
imakesoap
I used a slide rule in physics class because handheld calculators were expensive machines (my dad had one that just did 4 basic operations and he took it to be repaired (!) when it got wacky). I didn’t even have access to a Commodore until 1981 or so at college. We had to use punchcards for code and stand in an actual queue to have a technician run your program. But I too, am very young and don’t understand why my hair has turned so very very blonde that it’s almost white these days
androgenoide
I didn't give up my slide rule just because I could afford a calculator. In fact, I still have it on the shelf next to my desk.
andsy
I am definitely younger than you by far as I didn’t learn BASIC until (I believe) 1990. In my defense I didn’t know English, which made it a bit more difficult; I memorized each “magic word” without knowing their linguistic meaning :) anyway leg pillows are The Shit! You don’t need a fancy one, you can just use a couple of regular, low pillows. Many pillows to choose from for when you wake up in the night (from your youthful need to pee or general back pain) are your friends.
BarryTheCyborg
They already said that autistic people won't be counted
FormerlySable
I’m a side sleeper who’s been sleeping with a pillow between my knees for 20+ years. It really keeps my back (mild scoliosis) and hips from hurting a lot. I’m not young, though. I’m 58.
thishousesmellslikefish
Perhaps the Trash-80 succeeded at making me a basic bitch as us young people say. My daily drug is Pepcid with a chaser of Claritin redi tabs because I’m young and ready to go. To bed. By 9:00.
DamnedIfYouDo
Uh...I'm pretty sure you're above the age ceiling for imgur.
68slug
TRS-80? You were lucky. I had a TI-99 hooked up to an ancient 13” b&w tv. Oh we used to dreammmm about having TRS-80.
medic642
Taught myself TI Basic on my TI-99-4A. Must have been bougie because we had the speech synthesizer that yelled "Look out!" While playing Alpiner.
68slug
Bougie indeed. The only peripheral I had was the official TI cassette deck that took hours to load from. But such an underrated system.
ThisGuyHere
I also.... have a friend... that learned BASIC a few years after that and cut my- er... their teeth on an IBM PC 5150 and then DOS based machines. As for the rest, in my opinion, as we are both youths, ibuprofen is great, but the longer lasting is Naproxen if you can get it. Also, try angling the bottom of your pillow into the back of your neck for firmer support and to lessen neck/back pain.
AgentKGB
I was born in '78. So many people had access to Commodore 64s or even VIC 20s for not crazy expensive prices. You could learn to code in BASIC pretty easily.
Pyrowolf1
I have strong opinions on ibuprofen because I have Ulcerative Colitis and am not supposed to take NSAIDS. However, I am also a fellow youth. Howdy-do-dee
catsofat
A fellow young person here, who heard old people take meloxicam for aches in joints when ibuprofen messes with the guts too much.
shapr
I started with a Timex Sinclair in 1982, a friend won one in a lottery and left it at my house for a year. That bit of luck led me to writing software for a living.
technofiend
And for sure no one here socially engineered the supervisor password for their school district's CDC mainframe, or shoulder surfed the password for their school's PLATO admin account, etc
R2DJ
Fentex
Speaking as someone who's experience pre-dates the Trash-80 (actually loved those babies) a leg pillow is absolutely for the best.
beachbum273
I bet you would forget your own birthday before you forgot your ICQ
geotard
Ooh a TRASH 80, somebodies parents loved them. In my day we were given a Vic20 and we accepted we could only have 3.5kb after BASIC loaded and we bloody well liked it.
aslum
My friend had a TRS-80 - my first computer was VIC-20 (basically a commodore 32 if you know what the C64 was)
CallMeMcGyver
I so wanted a VIC-20...
Wolfshead009
I had a Vic-20 at home and used the TRS-80 at school. Nothing like saving your file to audio tape. And we even had the expansion cartridge to add memory. All 3k of it.
aslum
Lucky. I had to use Kernel (assembly for the vic 20) to put in a random seed generator for the star trek game I had because without the memory expansion there wasn't enough space to add one in the code.
aslum
And otherwise, every time I played I had to play the same procedurally generated (though it wasn't called that back then) Galaxy.
goboltz
It's "Trash-80" and it was Trsdos "Good Jos Taipan " , Model IV with dual 5.25 Floppy disks & 64 k of memory! Now get Off my Lawn it's Time for Meds again !! Darn youguns...
commentsbadcomments
What is this BASIC, and TRS-80? I ask because I totally didn’t have the superior Commodore 64, probably at the same time. And program stupid games with 1000’s of lines of BASIC to impress the two friends I had.
ExecutiveProducerWolfDyck
Ibuprofen isn't good for chest pains. Gotta be aspirin.
AntyMatter
Got you beat. I learned Basic in 1975 on an IBM 360 mainframe using the teletype machine (lots of paper involved) . The computer was off limits on Thursdays because that's when they ran payroll. We also wrote programs on paper which the young ladies in that department typed in to create JCL cards. Happy days.
KingOfTheImgurians
Yeah, I remember having to schedule time on the computer for larger projects. Talk about a trip down memory lane.
androgenoide
We just had to turn in a deck of punch cards in my first class. Someone else ran them.
brainwipe
Child. There are Imgurians here that coded before high level languages. Not me. But there are others. Allegedly.
WhichOneIsPink25
I've heard of them as well. Allegedly
p7zjnq9gei9000
I can confirm. Allegedly.
bastarddad
How are you people typing all these comments with your arthritic hands? I can barely read them through my cataracts.
p7zjnq9gei9000
Voice to text. 🤣🤷♂️
CleverlyReferencedThing
I've had strong opinions about sleeping with a leg pillow since I was 25
PacManDreaming
TRS-80, with dual floppies and a cassette drive, here. And a dot matrix printer. These were the days.
theredjuggler
I recommend a round throw type pillow for side sleeping and a rectangle or pill shape for back or stomach sleepers. Not that I would be so old as to need or have tried either one, or many more.
sirmixanaverageamount
It means they need some aleve, and a baby aspirin.
shitheadtookmyname
It means you've never known the touch of a woman, fellow.
CallMeMcGyver
Wow, they are younger than the old person I know who started on the TRS-80 in 1981... they tell me their parents believed computers were a "fad"... crazy huh?... I think they may be right... Any day now, we'll see it all fade away.
CanadaDad
Here. Let me take notes on these rectangular note cards. Yes, I know all of them are missing a corner and have little holes in them. They really are great for notes.
TheSnacker
I think that I started programming on an Apple 2, fellow young person!
doihavetobeclever
Aspirin is a better NSAID because it does not have the same potential as other NSAIDS to promote excess clotting.
ADDGirl
It's pretty much an anti platelet, so yes, it's not that it "doesn't promote excess clotting" it's that it's literally stopping your blood from clotting.
Ibuprofen also has blood thinning properties though.
doihavetobeclever
The pharmacology of it is complicated, but there's a warning label on ibuprofen since 2015
cercafoglie
Fuck... A leg pillow... I thought I was the only one...
Gindipple
They are great after breaking your leg in half mid calf from stunt jetskiing. The pain lingers to remind you to never do that again.
KingOfTheImgurians
Might I suggest that you treat yourself to a leg pillow of the buckwheat hull variety? I've had one for years and it has helped immensely. beans72.com is your friend.
the1theycallGreen
TranscendentMonkeyNutsRupturingAndReIeasingAVelociraptor
Nice upgrade from the ps2
fractalsphere
YAY I'm not the only one! There are DOZENS of us! DOZENS! ;-)
CallMeMcGyver
Dozens of us are still alive!... Ooops... ok... eleven of us... wait... ten!… No, he's fine!... Eleven of us!
KingOfTheImgurians
Ha!
ChikaChickaBowWow
I'll be 44 in a few months and I really enjoy seeing other people here that is as young or even negative younger than me here, because it's closer to a world I understand better than the one I live in. Also the IT history we have witnessed is so extreme. At 8 years old I used the C64 and Amstrad CPC 464, at 13 I used a 486 SX 66 MHz and installed MS DOS. Small increments at a time but a completely different society and I am an IT infrastructure architect now. It became my life and who I am.
dcnblue
As a fellow young person, can you yell me more about this "leg pillow"? Does it help with knee pain? Not that I would need it. Because I'm also very young.
KingOfTheImgurians
I would imagine it would help with knee, lower back, and hip pain, but I wouldn't know anything about that, nor do I have any thoughts on doing some bedtime yoga (Yoga with Adrienne) before turning in. Because, as I have previously stated, I have NO CLUE who owns that rapidly graying beard in the mirror. Well, I'm off to count my garbage pail kids cards again.
jb96387
I bet my — friends collection of garbage pail kids cards would have beat your—friends collection. I could be wrong cause what are they? I only know Pokémon … crap I don’t know the jig is up cause I’m sure that’s not the newest kinda card. :)
cepacolusmaximus
Yaasss! Adrienne is tha best! ... is what I imagine an old person would say
tbblues
Upvote for yoga with Adrienne
Dogman1227
Found the Wizard convention.
smorsdoeuvres
Taking notes for a much, Much older friend, thanks for the tips
v
hipifreq
A knee pillow? In THIS economy? I just... I mean, an older friend, just stuffs part of the blanket between their knees when they sleep. I'm grateful to be so young that I don't need this knowledge, but I still offer it to you, who also apparently doesn't need it
smorsdoeuvres
SJBSavageInk
If you're a back sleeper and you're fat or have a big ass, your knee hyper extends the wrong way so a slight bend is actually better for them generally speaking. If you are a side sleeper a knee pillow is a necessity because it balances your hip alignment and keeps your spine straight through to your neck. Other pillows are required for proper spine alignment depending on size and sleeping position.
InvadingYourSpaces
Also, if you're on your side, you don't squash anything squashable as much, since they.. drift. I heard. From old people.
SJBSavageInk
I have that problem more in the chest area but I have a second pillow for that. Lol
Delathi
Download? Games came in the back of a magazine.
seafox7
*Hysterical, nostalgic shrieking ensues*
PressedRatAndWarthog
And that one mistyped comma haunts you every waking moment.
Richarmeleon
Imagine a modern command line linter in the pre-2000s compilers/interpreters. If I could time travel, I'd fuckin do that.
KingOfTheImgurians
That's how my dad (an old school Cobol coder) taught me to debug. I'd hand write those BASIC games from the back of BYTE magazine and, of course, I'd miss something. And he would just help me figure out what I must've missed.
RichardPicture
I spent a summer entering the program featured in a Nibble Magazine for a game called Beach Head. It never worked right and I spent a good portion of that summer reviewing every line and every character to make sure it was exactly what was printed.
CallMeMcGyver
I remember those... I actually made a game by combining bits of code I picked up from those... I had very little real knowledge of what I was doing (I didn't have my own computer and could only use the school computer for two hours)... but it was part of a school assignment and I knew enough to figure out what went where... it worked though and I passed. That was 1981 and I didn't end up owning my own computer until 1993... (plays sad music and leaves conversation)
thatwoodguy
Compute! Gazette
Gindipple
Have 100s of them in a box somewhere in basement. Great memories!
KingOfTheImgurians
"Oh, that takes me back. Thank you for a lovely memory." - is what I'd say if I wasn't a youngster, which I am. Me and my Jamz are the coolest.
2Ghoul4School
Oh fuck off that's not real. Is that real? That ain't real. Listen, I'm a millennial, I'm an aging dinosaur about to turn to dust like the rest of you, my main source of dopamine is incremental improvements to my home like that time when I got a slightly better dishrack, or literally every single time I go to IKEA to reinvent how I store my socks, but this? Copying the actual code of a game off a printed page? That can't be real. Tell me it isn't real.
ibrokemyselflmao
Archive.org/details/computes.gazette
Have fun
Richter12x2
It's real all right. And if you got a single character out of place, it didn't work and you learned to proofread. I'm told, I mean. The person who told me ended up getting their fees waived by the FBLA in high school so they could keep in typing and word processing competitions, because by that point they had years of practice typing quickly and perfectly.
RichardPicture
So very very real.
seafox7
When I was 8, and we got our first IBM clone (2x 5.25 floppy drives, no hard drive and 64k) I asked my mom for a game.
She got me a book full of THAT, instead. It was real. And it was a nightmare.
Unfortunate500
Oh, my sweet summer child, some of us debugged COBOL on punch cards. I remember the arrival of computers with peripherals like keyboards and monitors. It was glorious to just type in the code from books and magazines and watch it work. Tape decks and cartridges made distribution more reliable. They didn't invent it.
The 6502 created the first generation (X) to grow up with computers.
The transistor is only 78 years old.
Unfortunate500
Also, many of these are in straight BASIC and you can still type them into your PC today and play them. Fire up VSCode and Google copies of the magazine. You will be tearing it up in tic-tac-toe, Hunt the Wumpus, and B1Bomber in no time!
Wolfshead009
Been there, done that.