DaniusJones123
54391
2063
46
Jul 23, 2025 1:59 PM
DaniusJones123
54391
2063
46
CedricDur
From the same person who will say 'women are fine being seen in bathing suits but will kick a fuss at being seen in underwear', while pretending not to see the difference between the two is not the exposed skin.
zylokun
Nobody has said something incorrectly yet. I don't understand the problem
PagetheFound
Boxers get paid to participate. Getting hit is likely, but preferably still optional.
fractalsphere
Politicians are proof people will sell their souls as long as they're being paid for it.
amphid
For the masses, democracy ends at the voting box.
JRobinsnest
Today on "Imgur memes about consent and capitalism"
gumblemuntz
OnlyFans owner is a huge AIPAC donor, if you want to ethically source your porn elsewhere
CorgiInALilBlackDress
I did not know that eww
FiftyShadesOfBroccoli
Seems like the first poster is confusing objectification and sexualization. People can use their agency to self-sexualize (present themselves in a sexually appealing / erotic or even pornographic way). As long as this is their own choice, and they don't feel economically pressured to do something they're not 100% comfortable with, this is completely fine. Objectification – literally reducing a person to a dehumanized object or commodity – is an entirely different matter.
zerneus
Its... about... consent... why are people so stupid? Yes if I offer someone pictures of me in a banana hammock i chose to do that if someone takes and posts a photo online without asking me and says "check out this guy's dong" I'm gonna feel different about that...
kojenk
Even worse is that their sort of thinking seems to associate objectification as some sort of default trait when its they themselves willfully inserting it on the narrative. Yet another example of them blaming women for being objectified. It does not need to be a part of the equation.
usernametakenisthestoryofmylife
Lawyers are proof someone will fight for you dumb ass as long as you pay for it.
bourbonandbaddecisions
It’s the oldest profession. People should be paid for their labor and be protected. There should be no shame / stigmatization.
TerribleBot
We all sell our health to pay the rent
EccentricNut
Pharmaceuticals are proof that the government has no problem with drugs as long as they're paid for it
ronnyhugo
The irony is that placebos aren't allowed. And even though labeling aspirin for a specific thing (like menstrual pain or "my neighbor plays loud music") and charging more would make it work better, we have repeatedly fined companies for doing just that "because its just generic aspirin and you're tricking the customers into having less pain from the same old cheap medication that costs you no more to make".
ThatRaccoonGuy
It's almost like different people are different, huh crazy
horsetuna
The difference is consent.
On OnlyFans they are consenting to it.
But out on the street, etc... they aren't
jimhotep
This right here.
Targe0
On the site they are selling you a product.
Yes, the product might be their naked bodies, but it's still a product.
On the streets they aren't selling anything, so they are just another person meaning you have no right to anything about them.
Consent is important, but so is situational recognition.
horsetuna
Exactly what I said. On OF there is an expectation of it and an acceptance (within rules ofc). On the street there's no assumed expectation and definitely no assumed acceptance (or at least there shouldn't be)
Tallboy13
women box and you're better at it if you don't get punched in the face
moonshadowkati
Woman who boxes here! Every boxer will get punched in the face, that's just how it works. I'm lanky and not all that tough, so I try to stay at the edge of my range and throw straight punches, and avoid or parry the counterattacks that come my way. Still, I've taken a few face punches. There's only so much you can dance around when someone keeps charging at you. Conversely, sometimes you have to be brave and take a hit to deliver a bigger hit in return, keep em guessing. :)
Tallboy13
That's bad ass and I too am lanky haha. Not a boxer though so i'll appeal to your expertise
DiracsDelta
Facebook is proof that idiots like to broadcast their sexist ideology, and nobody even has to pay them to do it.
Targe0
Oh they are paying for it, just with their data not their money.
Burinal
So all women like to be objectified because some women do OF? This is even assuming all OF models like to be objectified.
justherefortheconfession
Philosophy is proof that people will ponder life's meaning as long as they get....oh wait, we don't get paid
Targe0
Not unless you rangle yourself a teaching position.
BenjaminMu
Wrangle.
ChelVanin
Why can’t people understand that sometimes a person is in the mood to be objectified and at other times it’s wildly inappropriate?
beelzebob23
It's the figuring out when that is the hard part.
rshini
Nope, it's not that hard if you actually listen.
Merdock
Like anything else related to consent, if you aren't sure you have their consent, don't assume you have it. And just because a person consents to something in the abstract it does not mean they consent to a specific person doing something to/with them.
ChelVanin
I’m pretty bad at reading social cues, so I get it. But I know what the safer error to make is.
Targe0
Not really, as it's quite easy to tell when someone wants you to look at them naked and when they don't.
Because when they do, they will get naked.
And when they don't, they won't.
SquashDemon
Churches are proof religious people are willing to listen to a man in a dress tell them stories as long as they pay for it.
kkanne20
lol
Davedavedavedavedave
https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1d28xbWhscjF6Z256OGExb3A4Y2VyYzc0cjBoMWNkbjFveTJucmt0dCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/7IW6ys4NjIMwkN7euU/200w.webp
DropDrop
The fascinating thing, is these people haven't been this angry about porn, but onlyfans has man people really upset, but onlyfans has given women way more control than than the traditional porn industry ever did. Objectifying someone is reducing their agency, it can mean you're just doing it in your mine about them, assuming or pressuring them to have less agency, or it can be actually taken someone's agency by drugging their drink, or forcing yourself on them. Women exercising their agency-
DropDrop
isn't objectifying themselves, it's the agency that matters. Now we could go into how capitalism manufactures consent, and has an objectifying element that reduces everyone's free agency which is part of the core of the comments in the post above.
JustSomePersonThere
Don’t forgot about its tendency to commodify everything.
sleepinggreenidea
If you want a closer-to-home example, UserSub HATES any woman posting a picture of themself (selfie or otherwise) but has no problem at all with RHM, THT, etc. (even if the pics are selfies) - and the former rule can be suspended as long as the woman posts within the "approved framework" of a themed objectification day.
DropDrop
Yeah, they're also super pro LGBTQAI+... I mean L, they're super pro L.. and MtF T if they're cute, but post two guys kissing and it's getting down vote bombed. It's also funny to me how mad people get when i don't credit hot women pictures, but They're find with no credit non-hot woman content. They just want source to look for more revealing shots, but are also embarrassed to say it, so they act like they're just upset about no source because crediting is so important to them. Also when I do
DropDrop
credit right away in a hot woman post, people call me an OF ad bot. It's all so sanctimonious.
sleepinggreenidea
Shameless virtue signalling, all of it. It's not as toxic as it was when you'd see T0GTF0 posted on anything remotely related to women, and sometimes would see it as a posted image ooze out of UserSub on a creeping wave of upvotes... but just b/c it's not as mask-off as the 2014-17 period doesn't mean it's good.
SoftKleenex
To be fair boxing let's you punch others too and get paid for it
FacelessAce
Also, bars are proof you don't even have to pay men to get punched in the face, they'll do that for free. Also, female boxing exists. Don't pretend like it doesn't, that's misogyny and erasure.
Targe0
Only if you're good at it.
SomeGeek75ygh
lets* - been punched in the head too often?
SoftKleenex
My sincerest apologies grammar fuhrer
SomeGeek75ygh
First, I was trying to help you look smarter than a 2nd grader, but you decide to be an asshole about it. So, go ahead and keep looking like a fucking moron and asshole. Second, actual Nazis are actually fucking up several countries right now, so fuck off with that shit, look deep in the mirror, and call yourself an asshole in every language you know. All none of them, since you obviously ain't fluent in English.
ProgeriaProstitutes
Did you know Medusa objectified a lot of people?
okayyeahigetit
Did you know that Medusa’s “curse” was actually a gift that was given to her?
jimhotep
Concretely.
kissmyassets
Only because she was objectivized first. Actually part of her lore, she wanted to get back her power/sense of self and never let a man hurt her again, incredibly sad story, she was a victim that saw every man as a threat after that to a point it led to her demise. very clever wordplay though.
thebonesofmyancestors
That's only the case in the 2nd iteration of the story. In the original story all three gorgon sisters were always monsters. The revised story that came along later had two versions. One she was seduced by Poseidon and the other she was raped.
beelzebob23
Underrated comment.
Hexrowe
Surgery is proof people have no problem being stabbed as long as they get to pay for it.
IhopeyougetstageIIIcoloncancer
And only by an experienced stabologist. I ain't messing around with these bullshit amateurs and their grapefruit spoons. I came here to be stabbed by a professional!
Hexrowe
Alright, alright, you win! Heh... I see you've played knifey spooney before.
kkanne20
oof
KafkasKarma
Thing is...they have to pay to be stabbed
usernameusedinlessplatforms2
Yes, that is what the original comment says.
KafkasKarma
Sorry...*pay* like I'm putting stress on the word...
usernameusedinlessplatforms2
Ookey...
8gigsofshark
https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1dTBwbm44d2VpN2R2bG5kdGw0bDQydG85OGUwZ2wyajE2a3Nva3J4MyZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/3JCaaiE2gcTbq/200w.webp
KafkasKarma
Ah...OK
thepicklebucket
It's none of these things. It's needing to be paid to live.
alt86er
The real issue here is the breach in logic itself. They pick a few examples and extrapolate them into a general rule. That literally proves nothing, except that there are examples that negate the opposite claim.
MathNotEvenOnce
That's the joke
alt86er
Thanks for pointing it out then.
Neednoggle
But also what a person chooses to do to get paid isn't a reason to judge them. Within reason, of course; as long as no one is being harmed, people can do what they want.
WwwhyYouNoLikeMe
What about debt-collectors?
terwashere
Universal basic income would be swell.
Targe0
It's going to happen eventually.
As the existing system is going to run out of work for people to do.
And the work there is will not support enough people to live on.
It's why some places are already doing trials with the idea. So it's a question of when, not if.
aloharamada
If only AI and automation wouldn't ultimately benefit the kind of people who already own most politicians, we could actually tax that shit accordingly, and all of us could live pretty swell lives.
Targe0
Except for the thousands of years of human history, where that simply wasn't the case.
People only need to be paid to live because they were conned into thinking that was something that was required.
DiogenesesMan
Why the downvotes? They're right. There was no wage system for most of history, and it was absolutely not a thing in prehistory. Before agricultural subsistence models, there is no reason for it to exist.
MrStealYourGiF
Stud facilities are proof that people have no problem jerking off a horse as long as they get paid for it.
bigred810
Targe0
I mean, the courts have shown some people will do it for free. Even if you tell them to stop, they will still try to do it.
SmellingMistake
InboxMeYourHDGIFs
LocalSemiFriendlyRabbitGal
beelzebob23
Everybody is prostituting themselves in some way or another.
smellsmiketeenspirit
Frankly, that sounds like "all lives matter".
CaptainScarfish
Hah! Look at those stupid women! Selling their bodies for money! *Returns to swinging hammer*
grandfalloon
Years ago I took a tour of the stamp mill at Bodie, an old gold-mining ghost town. When all the ore came out of the mine, the first stop was a metal grate, where a man with a sledgehammer would just smash the shit out of it for 12 hours straight, making the rocks small enough to fall through the grate. 2 guys with hammers, alternating 12 hour shifts, 6 days a week. The mill ran 24/6. And as we continued the tour, we realized that "12-hour Hammer Man" was actually one of the better jobs.
hotaru251
everyone has a price.
DoctorAvatarTheLastOfTheTimeBendingAirLords
I'd say selling their body, as prostitution makes me think it's explicitly sexual.
ChopOnBrother2021
https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTY1YjkxZmJlamZrNHY0ZHF2NWZkMmFheGRuY3l3aWkxZDM3eTd6YXVkNzRyNW13dCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/EZHH5P9EqQolXi79r2/200w.mp4
Oneblueeyerighthandguy
Oh my body is worth money? This body? The one that I hate? Gee I wonder what I’ll do. About my shitty body. That people want to buy. For some reason.
Fairemont
Capitalism, baby!
TacoPoweredHelicopter
You mean human nature.... You want to point to an economic system where labor was not exchanged?
Humans are the problem, and we will be the problem under every system unless we come to terms with the fact we are evil and will corrupt and exploit everything therefore we need safeguards in place. The problem is people enforce and regulate those safeguards.
JohnSmithterms
Not 3% ... they are the ones getting all the whores. In both senses of the word.
aThingWithAKeyboard
It's true. Once you realize you sell your body, mind, or both for income it becomes easier to pick your course. Sold body for 21 years to the Army, now selling mind to the gov programming.
Both are fucking exhausting...
IxnayOnTheOttenRay
Not me. I'm a slut. That means I do it for free!
forelle
Yes, we are all prostitutes. And those who think otherwise are usually the biggest prostitutes.
RTK4740
I'll reply to your comment positively for two bitcoins.
WrongUn
Full disclosure as someone who's worked kitchens for 20+ yrs and is broke: I wish I was hot and could make 20k a month for being perved on
pareidoliaperson
Can´t deny that capitalism is elbow deep in my arse.
ulfgarBentbeak
Except for the capital class. But yes, if your income is based on labor, it's selling your body/time.
GrowinWildontheFunnyFarm
Capitalism makes wh0res of everyone. That's why it's the oldest profession.
beelzebob23
So does socialism and communism.
GrowinWildontheFunnyFarm
Socialism is a government controlled system instead of private ownership, that not only tends to its citizens health and education, but also makes sure everyone is fed and has beds. Communism is sharing the production profits in a classless society based on need. Wh0ring is not mandatory.
MaleProstateMilker88
I'd rather have sex for a living than labour in a minimum wage job, though. Curse my ugly-genes!
dragonfire50
I’m trying.
Wraid
isaidsomethingcool
RIP Cloris Leachman
Omnislash9
My favorite moment of hers was from the comedy central roast of Bob Saget....."I'm not here to roast Bob Saget, I'm here to fuck John Stamos." Had me in tears laughing
isaidsomethingcool
There it is. Was hoping someone posted this gif. Good job
astrangehop
SO, Is/was prostitution a crime to protect the women from trafficing and abuse, or is it criminalised to stop the spread of disease and uphold the social idea that sex has to be earned and never paid for?
usernameistolkein
Disease
darkdragonempress
It was a repressed puritan culture bullshit because, at least in part, it did give women some semblance of power. Any occupation that helped women have independence was bad,
5m4llP0X
Exactly. At least with Camgirling/OF they have complete control (or should, at least) over the user base. They have complete control over what is done and what is seen. Ideally the same is for other forms of sex work (however, that often isn't the case with Madames, pimps, abusive johns, the porn industry, and sleezebag strip club owners)
astrangehop
I do find it interesting that twitch pulls (iirc) twice as much money from your gross than onlyfans.
Neednoggle
If I could make money as an actual prostitute, I probably would.
whereismymind86
No doubt, especially if it was legal and thus more safe, I’d definitely do porn if I was in better shape, beats the hell out of retail
Neednoggle
It actually is legal where I live (Canada). Sort of; specifically, it's legal to be a prostitute, but illegal to engage one's services, which is, in my opinion, pretty dumb. It still drives the industry into the shadows; it would be safer were it fully legal, with regulations and safeguards.
grrfvck
It's legal here, some of my friends do it. Don't worry about body, everyone has a type!
Alzeido
shape doesnt matter, just pick your audience
lurkmoarjono
for cheese, chicken tenders, and chokky milk.
LocalSemiFriendlyRabbitGal
Son of a bitch, I can get cheese for that?
HoldThatTHOT
I got the Nesquik, bend over
OnePostCloserToAHappierLIfe
Sorry, when I said 'Fuck Nestle', that's not what I meant.
lurkmoarjono
1/3 objectives completed
DarkRedCape
Good lord this chain is lewd
TheLastBootyBender
don't link shame
KentKnifen
Fun fact: before the industrial revolution, working for someone else ("wage labor") instead of making your own way (such as with a trade) was socially on par with prostitution because you were essentially selling your body to someone else.
bluetoaster42
Literally every job is "selling your body". Go do hard labour for thirty years and be confused as to why your backs fucked.
usernameusedinlessplatforms2
Office work breaks your back too (slipped disk etc). And sitting 8h/day for years causes other health issues , cardiovascular type for example.
So even in that you endanger your body for money.
Il1kepuns
Soldiers are proof people are okay with murder as long as they're getting paid for it.
ProppaGanda
Well, yes.
SarcasticComment
why "state sanctioned murder" exists as a saying, especially when police get involved
TimbiquiDarkThirty
Comstar and its Mercenary Review and Bonding Commission subsidiary approve of this message.
Pay your bills, Fucko
LocalSemiFriendlyRabbitGal
Y'all are just a glorified phone company.
TimbiquiDarkThirty
We here at ComStar would like to remind you to comply with your contractual terms of service, and to praise Blake while waiting for a Customer Service and Special Tactics Team to be dispatched to your location.
Thank you for choosing ComStar for all of your communication, banking, intelligence gathering and mercenary needs.
You Have No Choice!™
LocalSemiFriendlyRabbitGal
You can comply with deez nu- [transmission terminated]
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
And also okay with *being* murdered.
ProbablyWrong524
Came here for this one
bigmuffin1
*okay with murdering
GratuaCuun
Alistairetheblu
I think they meant to distinguish between murdering and being murdered.
GratuaCuun
They're being pedantic either way since it's obvious what OP meant
IhopeyougetstageIIIcoloncancer
But actually, though. This is a legitimate philosophical discussion that really needs to be had more than it currently does.
It's kind of wild how we've reached a consensus that murder is acceptable when the people in charge of society say it was a "necessary" murder, while also somehow suppressing the implication of "the government gets to decide who they want to die and their decision overrules everyone else".
gdex86
You get paid for your murders?
balubamedkokosnotter
Veteran here. We learned to incapacitate first instead of going for the kill. The thought of killing anyone feels and is abhorrent. I joined to be part of a peacekeeping force. That wasn't what I arrived at; U.S interests had to be maintained after all. We did our best within that framework. Not once did we see or hear of anyone going on a murder spree.
Bigblackdick69
And some one buys them a beer and shakes their hand for it.
terwashere
My great-grandfather (a disgusting pedophile) joined the marines so he could go killing, fuck foreign prostitutes, and get paid. I know it doesn't fit your point, but I do want to point out that all sorts of people get into the military. Some want to be heroes. Some just want a free education. And some just want to kill without going to prison.
8647taco
I had an old coworker that signed up for 3 tours in Nam for this exact reason.
ProbablyWrong524
The point in each of these cases is a gross oversimplification of the situation. The fact that many people join the military for different reasons is itself why the comment works.
ConfederacyOfDunces
Not really. The point of the top-level comment is "as long as they get paid for it" and one point in the reply is some don't even need to get paid for it, as they perceive other benefits (can murder without consequence)
Badprenup
The "as long as they get paid for it" is just continuing the style of posts from the image, but it doesn't have to specifically be that. You can change it to a more generalized "as long as they benefit from it" which doesn't alter any of statements in the image or top level comment and then includes the response to the comment.
@ProbablyWrong524 was right, the point is the oversimplification of what people do for work, what the work entails, and why they do it.
Bigblackdick69
I joined the Air Force because I wanted to be a meteorologist.
vegivamp
The point in every single one of those situations is "I will do something I don't really like doing because the money you pay lets me do things I do like".
Bigblackdick69
https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1dDZwZ2FwMG05cmU4bjJsN3V0bHIwdHJld3lkZTg2aG83bnptMDVheCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/yN5cstpWrO890qsMbR/200w.webp
SneakyGaryTheSerialHorseDrowner
I was reading a memoir of a British sniper in Afganistan and he had a squadmate who was very open about the fact he only joined the army so he could legally kill people.
fosul
I mean I disarmed bombs and made roads and areas safe for Afghans but ok.
qwertdeep
You couldn’t have expected a more “all lives matter” response from someone who sells their body to fight for capitalism and keeping the MIC afloat.
The bombs were for you and your invading comrades btw, you disarmed bombs to keep the INVADING OCCUPIERS safe. Any Afghans saved was just a coincidence. Afghan civilian lives were never a priority when your comrades were bombing weddings and MSF hospitals to target a couple of terrorists.
The shareholders thank you for you for your service 🫡
qwertdeep
And Afghanistan is safer now that you and your buddies aren’t there. It most definitely would’ve been safer if your country never got involved in the first place
fosul
Found the russian bot
qwertdeep
Yes, a Russian bot would use the illegal Russian invasion of Ukraine and an example to help those with low critical thinking skills understand that the soldiers of USA are also terrorists, like Russian soldiers are.
But if you had critical thinking skills you wouldn’t have offered your life up for a terrorist state
Skystriker8492
Hey what's up buffalo buddy, at least I hope you didn't have to get in the husky lol, that always made me laugh cause nobody husky is fitting in that box.
GIMike1972
Those of us cruising in MRAPs were real glad to have y'all around. It got so bad in 2011-2012 near Kabul I couldn't send a convoy out unless it was behind a RCP...
Skystriker8492
Hmm you may have worked with my unit, does the 420th en co ring any bells? Woulda been under the 458 at the time if I remember right
GIMike1972
We were in 1AD out of FOB Shank, COP Chark etc. deployed from Ft Bliss. 420th was from TX right?
fosul
I was def in the Husky lmfao. I'm not 6ft so not too bad for me
Skystriker8492
Oh geez, you guys who drove that thing were a separate breed I swear.
One of our primary husky drivers was kinda nuts one day on a training mission our end point was a range we were meeting the company at. It's our former LT.s first day as XO and he's giving the standard safety brief and he pulls right behind him between the bleachers and the firing line pops out the top yelling "where I park this bitch I gotta shit so bad?" And upon seeing XO he adds "...Sir?!" Good times lol
fosul
Oh yea for sure. Once I was in it for 6mos straight before PSG realized it. The conversations by yourself get better when you hear replies that are not there.
WarKittyKat
I think that's the point. Not that being in the military means you're just a murderous asshole, but that the involvement of financial compensation doesn't make gross oversimplifications of human motivations informative.
ProppaGanda
Why were the bombs there in the first place?
GooteMoo
Assholes.
qwertdeep
Because a country that doesn’t have democracy wanted to spend 20 years replacing the Taliban with the Taliban. After they spent millions of dollars funding the islamists that turned into the Taliban. The bombs wouldn’t have been there if USA didn’t illegally invade Afghanistan. 9/11 isn’t an excuse because the Taliban even offered up Bin Laden for a fair trial but Bush rejected
ProppaGanda
Not to mention that if not US meddling during the cold war, Afghanistan could be a secular country.
qwertdeep
Yep, they literally funded Islamists to take down the secular government in place. Interestingly, Afghanistan legalised women’s suffrage a year before the US in 1919. This was rescinded by the British Raj backed Nadir Shah 10 years later though. I’m surprised that pictures of Afghani women wearing western clothes before the US-backed Islamists took over the country don’t do the same rounds that the “Iran pre-revolution” do. There’s a much longer period of them wearing westernised clothing too
fosul
Taliban were actively targeting families to plant them in the ground to kill US Soldiers and ANA. The issue was the family's kids were playing with the bombs and dying, or Taliban would kill the people for trying to warn us.
ProppaGanda
Damn, you're so close to the point :)
fosul
I understand the sentiment and so on about murdering and war, especially given troops "deployed" to CA or border mission and hating them for it, but these are low ranked Soldiers that are just living and doing what they do. If you want to hate someone for this, go vote the fuckers out placing Soldiers in that position. Soldiers are not cops, and most don't want to be there any more than you want them there.
qwertdeep
You didn’t need to sign up to join in with an illegal invasion. The soldiers that dropped the bombs on civilians in Afghanistan didn’t have to either. Blame the politicians and those willing to die for them.
The war couldn’t happen without the millions of useful idiots signing up to slaughter brown people and enforce US imperialism.
Just like we criticise the Russian volunteers for helping their country’s illegal invasion, fuck you for your contributions in your country’s illegal invasion.
qwertdeep
So the Taliban would never have planted those bombs to target the invading US army if the US didn’t illegally invade? Cool, thank you for your contributions in the illegal invasion and for destabilising Afghanistan further.
witheredspoon
respect!
qwertdeep
Do you respect the Russian soldiers dismantling mines in the way of their illegal invasion?
Syko73
SteveTheEgg
I feel like sex workers are more akin to social workers, in that the job definitely has a mental toll even if it wasn't so socially taboo. But then again I guess any job can.
HerrBisch
Tweet so old it now has more likes than pixels.
whereismymind86
Precisely, I’ve worked labor intensive jobs my whole life, how that isn’t selling my body is a mystery, at least I’d get paid well for sex work
smellsmiketeenspirit
There's another way to consider this: "selling your body" has had a very specific meaning for a long time: selling your body for sex. It's true working labor intensive jobs is also selling your body but generalizing that expression only hides the specificity of sex work and goes against the intent to highlight what is specific about it. Put in reverse: imagine coal miners claiming they are selling their bodies, their lungs and prostitutes counter with "so what, I am also selling my body".
StrokeFlavoured
Say it with me: Sex work is real work.
Ketheres
As such sex workers should have the same rights (such as being protected from blatant abuse by law*) all other workers do.
*mileage may vary by jurisdiction
namelessone
I kinda hate this take. Yes, you sell your body but doing one without wanting to is grueling work, while doing the other without wanting to is constant sexual assault and trauma.
msaukkor
A major difference between them is that prostitution is a customer service occupation. And the difference to most other customer service jobs is that you have the worst kind of customers and you will be spending extended time with them in private rooms. No coworkers or security cameras watching over you.
orp0piru
“Everyone's a whore, Grace. We just sell different parts of ourselves.”
― Tommy Shelby (Peaky Blinders)
whizzer
The amount of bags of coal I've handled...how the boss treated the workers...ya I felt like a prostitute.
TerribleBot
We all sell our health to pay the rent
tryyshokk
I DO think that coal miners sell their bodies. All of us that work sell our time and effort for cash. In a capatalist society, everything is a commodity that you can sell, and if it is not, it is worthless.
hyptosis
that's a really good one
JustSomePersonThere
Yes, it is!!!!
kiski
So, for my understanding, if we don't take this icky moralistic view of sexuality and treat it just like any other manual labor, then, if I ask someone to carry down a table down a flight of stairs for $50, I should be able to expect the same reaction as when I ask them to roughly dildo themselves while I masturbate to it?
I'm not looking for a fight, just trying to understand how this liberated it's-completely-the-same view works.
JustSomePersonThere
Ask the wrong person to move something for 50 bucks and they will be just as offended as you asking, say, a nun for the dildoing.
The reason people would be put off by such a request is specifically because everyone has been programmed to think such a thing is gross. So, if you request that, you are saying “you seem gross enough to do this”.
What I want is a world where asking someone for that would not carry the implications it does in our world.
kiski
I'm not entirely sure, but I think I might also like that world. Anyway it appears we agree that this is currently not its state. I'd disagree that it's only about the perceived slight though.
If you carry a table, no one expects you to moan and exclaim how great it feels. I guess I would be more agreeable if we compared service jobs like waiting on tables where you're expected to pretend the guest isn't a massive dickhead while they expect you to behave like their menial servant for an hour.
RevengeIsIceCream
Generally, moving companies exist and promote their services. The same could be true for sex jobs. Would you call a restaurant and ask them to send someone over to carry your furniture?
kiski
I mean, I'm not looking for or can afford or need a whole-ass moving company, just someone, anyone to help me get this damn table down, same as I can't afford an escort or need a whole hour of their services with their rates. I just want a quick dildo show. If it's the same, can I just ask around the people I know and it won't be weird?
ProppaGanda
As I see it, the problem is not selling the body. Even in a perfect society of equals, as long as we need coal, we would need people to mine coal, we would need to set up a system of incentives to effectively coerce someone to take that work. It's not the case with sex work though. Sex work can only exist in an unequal society, where the buyer has certain power over the worker. Without this power discrepancy, sex work becomes just sex.
RevRagnarok
That's a lot of words to say "I can't get the sex and shouldn't have to pay for it."
ProppaGanda
Projecting much?
RevRagnarok
No, I'm not a Boomer, so I don't go around saying how I hate my wife and she never wants to be with me.
ProppaGanda
If you check my profile you might find out that you're kiiiiiinda wrong in your assumptions - with images, because apparently reading with any degree of understanding would be well beyond your capabilities.
MasterBountakun
I wholeheartedly disagree, your example excludes kinds of sex work where you don't have to actually have intercourse. If I take lewd pictures of myself and sell it to others as even a hobby, that doesn't mean any person or persons have power over me.
ProppaGanda
Yes, I am particularly taking about sex work in the meaning of the means of supporting oneself, just as I don't think going to the mines to check if you might find some shinies is not exactly what we think about when we talk about the miners' plight.
MasterBountakun
I'm not sure I agree with that either. I believe in a more equal society people would still face issues of loneliness and isolation, though not to the same extent now. The same human urges would remain. I think what you're saying is that sex worker as primary profession wouldn't exist in a society that doesn't use require currency of some kind to sustain yourself but I think there would still be a place in society for people who fulfill these roles.
ProppaGanda
So we would need to get someone to do community service of pity sex?
smellsmiketeenspirit
These are bizarro takes on a very hard subject. I dare any of the people in this thread that are trying to equate sex work with working as a cashier, IT support or accounting to go in a bar where coal miners gather and explain to them that they are in the same boat because "See, I am also selling my body".
airwoman
I do not understand your logic. Buyer enjoys sex is the same as someone wanting a alcohol. A worker offering it and wanting money... it doesn't seem like inequality has to be present there. In an ideal equal society both male and female sex workers would exist equally and sex work doesn't have to be inherently unequal.
whereismymind86
I’d imagine their opinion is skewed by the idea only the desperate resort to sex work, hence an equal society wouldn’t have sex work. This is only true of our society because it’s a taboo thanks to religious sexual repression.
ProppaGanda
You don't need to be "desperate" to be unfree in capitalism. Unless you believe that an office worker sells their work out of their free will on the equal rights as the buyer of their work, you must admit that all we are free to do is to choose the way we are exploited.
Bukoden
Touched on it in my other reply, but: Yes, a worker CAN sell their work out of free will, with equality to the buyer of such things. Have you not heard of people doing a thing they enjoy for work? Passion jobs? Hobbies that make money?
Desperation isn't needed to be unfree in capitalism, but being "unfree" isn't required, either. Not everyone may find these options, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
ProppaGanda
Money is already a token of inequality. If someone is providing sex work as a way to pay rent, buy food and so on, it's already done on the threat of deprivation. If they don't, then it's just some fetish play and not sex work. This threat of social deprivation excludes the possibility of real consent, in the same way as I don't consent to working my office job.
Bukoden
Money is a token of value to make a trade economy more accessible. Work is a task performed for compensation, regardless of the reasons for it.
I can want extra spending money just to have it available and use sex work to make that happen. I can be neutral about sex, seeing it as no diff than taking a walk. No excitement, no threat of deprivation. Still sex, still work.
Some people can also enjoy their work, even with threat of deprivation. Still sex, still work.
ProppaGanda
This is exactly where we disagree. Capital, and money as its representation, has nothing to do for me with facilitating trade, only facilitating exploitation. The idea that money came as a way of easing barter is provably wrong. First coins came to be as a method of payment for mercenaries; similarly, it appears that the source of prostitution was debt slavery. To quote David Graeber:
ProppaGanda
And, to be clear, I am not implying in any way that sex work is immoral or wrong beyond the way that being a salaried miner or office worker is immoral or wrong.
secondgoaround
I’d rather be a prostitute than a coal miner. I’d rather be a coal miner’s daughter than a prostitute’s daughter. No, I will not explain the logic.
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secondgoaround
Loretta Lynn was proud to be a coal miner’s daughter. Don’t hear a lot of people say they’re proud to be a hooker’s daughters. Lol
JustSomePersonThere
That’s because those people have been programmed to view the profession as immoral and dirty. That is of course utter bullshit.
secondgoaround
Correct.
voydkastor
Ah, but what about the daughter of a coal miner and a prostitute? do those nullify each other in this fantasy of picking who births us?
secondgoaround
Sure, in the land of make believe, they cancel out.
Ignition101
Fairly sure you're more likely to be looked after better by a miner as a parent than a prostitute. I also cannot explain the logic. But just a gut feel.
catsnroombas
I imagine it's harder to get quality child care when you work nights.
Ignition101
You can get a night nanny. Although at 10pm saying "hey I'm going out will be back at 6am" wearing next-to-nothing will probably put a lot of nannies off.
secondgoaround
Hey, Patty the Daytime Hooker does alright.
myotteraccount
I'd assume that a coal miner would have a consistent income making budgeting easier while a prostitute or waitress (in the US due to tips) would have highly variable income.
Ignition101
Yep. And reliance on volume of demand / tips = more incentive to spend time working versus a fixed income of a coal miner = less incentive to be at home with a daughter looking after them. Again - gut feel as this may not be true, but feels likely.
reliot
So what you're saying is that sex workers need to unionize. Got it.
CyberHexx
Sex work should absolutely be legalized, taxed, regulated, and Unionized. There's no way on earth that you can convince me that selling someone an orgasm is a bad thing. But there's been a whole lotta ways sex workers have been abused before, and those absolutely need to be addressed. There needs to be strict laws on pimping and madam-ing, as well as laws governing how healthcare interacts with the whole institution.
TripleDane
They are in some countries
https://www.s-i-o.dk/english/