OohDaLolly
80083
2574
124
It's amazing how differently you look at things when the actual problem is said in plain English.
Nov 13, 2024 3:17 PM
OohDaLolly
80083
2574
124
It's amazing how differently you look at things when the actual problem is said in plain English.
ParmaViolets
tsiyeria
fartymarty42
Hellstorm99
Always anti-predatory men. My Shadow was taken in by a trans man. HE may have been born and designated a woman, but he loved My Shadow until his dying breath. That’s all I care about. I would have trusted no one else with my pup… I miss my dog.
jimjong1
/gallery/OIsQMsA
fnoigy
Kinda like American Christians do in reality
TuckerCarlsonWarnedYouTheredBeGirlsLikeMe
Be trans and have a hard time getting a job. Be a rapist and get elected president.
HeLoudlySaidIgnoreMe
They love predatory men, they want to smokescreen for them by pretending that minorities are the real problem.
Republicans love predators, especially child predators, because that is the ultimate power in their mind, and they love ultimate power and hurting people.
Cptbluebeard7
Hey fascists: Why do you think a sign saying someone can't access a space is going to stop someone intending to commit a much worse crime? Oh right, you don't actually care if women and children get raped, as evidenced by all the literal rapists in your party (and the president elect), you only care about putting your boot on the neck of those you don't like.
LawFiveGuy
I'm a little confused. I mean, I completely understand the idea that the problem is predatory men and not trans women, I just don't have any idea what 'semi-regular' means.
BizzleBanger
doctorId
The problem is that to the transphobe there's no distinction between predatory men and trans women. They just automatically think every one of the latter is actually the former. So this argument would just basically sound like you're agreeing with them to their ears.
DukeSliscus
Also: Men do not need to disguise themselves as trans women to enter women's spaces and assault them.
captainnewbi
they believe all trans are predatory though
OnceBotheredTwiceShy
Plain English you say ? You need to reduce it to monosyllabic simplicity so those who need to hear it can get in the general area of the concept - after that you can hope to work on some sense of language comprehension. Not to draw too fine of a point here.
Ababybunny
My friend is better off in the “ladies” room because women don’t sexually assault him, ever.
Xenarion
Also statistically transgender women are way more likely to be beaten in men's bathrooms than people pretending to be transgender to assault someone in women's bathroom.
taez555
Pretty sure they don't have an issue with predatory men.
OohDaLolly
What they have a problem with is logic.
mjperk
What they have is a problem with morals.
DrKonrad
And decency in general
meytalraven
This doesn't have sound
adickurig
I don’t think it’s the real recording. The actual recording of him saying this was taken from a hot mic after an interview. I don’t think there’s associated video of it.
taez555
As the person who made the gif, this is correct.
adickurig
I’m honored.
Ororon452
Oh no, you misunderstand (however SLIGHTLY). It's the fact that they buck the system. That they would like to wear dresses, use makeup, and become feminine. These traits are seen as weak. So they must be attached to a disturbed mind...
Also, just as an aside, most of the people against trans people are simply attracted to them. Yet their upbringing says "don't f*** anything with a penis". So the cognitive dissonance causes them to say "this is wrong and needs to be removed"
taez555
The Jesus shame really fucks with these people.
Lovethesmelloftoastedsourdoughbread
Weird
Wylekat
Gee- can we all guess who would do such a thing?
sascottsn
The issue with the people that have the "problem" (aside from them being assholes) is that they don't believe that trans women are women. They are looking at it like, wolf in sheep's clothing, never imagining that the wolf might want to be a sheep. Best way I can describe it.
canadianreserve
Also they think if their 5 year old daughter sees a penis in a change room they will become sexual deviants, because north America is paranoid about nudity.
drh1138
More fundamentally they don't care about the facts.
dingybasement350
They're also telling on themselves when they suggest that the only reason a "man" (as they refer to trans women) would dress in a feminine way is for reasons of sexual predation. That's all that occurs to them. I wonder why!
StellarJay77
Sometimes it's even more depraved than that too. Some of them project and think that if they were made to look like a woman that they absolutely would seize the opportunity to sexually assault a woman incognito. It's exactly the same as somemof them calling trans folks pedophiles. They think everyone has the same thought processes and urges they do and if unrestrained they would absolutely act on them.
chemmyjones234
Agree with the last part. Predatory men will use abuse the system and hurt women. How is this not a legitimate concern?
2074red2074
Right now you can just say "No I'm a trans man, this is the correct restroom for me to use." At least in the alternative a rapist would have to take the extra step of dressing as a woman.
Clouddrivekid
Why would a rapist go through the trouble of dressing like a woman(which makes them a target of violence ) to invade a female space when he can just stay a man and rape like he normally would. It’s not like women are only assaulted in bathrooms like wtf. Not to mention trans women are far far more likely to be assaulted in the men’s room than a cis woman is to be assaulted by a trans person. Look at the percentages, who’s more likely to rape, cis men or trans people?
DiracsDelta
Let’s abstract this. A minority group has a problem. A system is created to address and solve that problem. Bad actors are capable of abusing the system. Fighting the system prevents the minority from getting help, and does nothing to impact the bad actors already acting badly, so everything stays the same. Fighting the system isn’t a solution for either problem, it’s just ignoring both the problems because the proposed solution isn’t perfect. So how about we treat each problem separately.
chemmyjones234
I disagree with putting the safety of the 0.5% over the safety of the 49%, maybe I’m just taking crazy pills!
A society that bends the knee to an outlier group is one destined to fail the majority.
DiracsDelta
Just to be clear here, your 49% are not safe now. The 0.5% are not safe now. Your stance seems to be that persecuting 0.5% is the right reaction. I very disrespectfully disagree.
Grigother
in a land that treats rapists better than trans women, why would they even bother to “abuse the system” when the system is vouching for them?
chemmyjones234
I agree, the judges on Soros payroll are a problem. Why do they treat rapists so well? Idk
KR1570F
the problem is they would agree with you and then go on to claim that there are no such thing as real transwomen because they are all predatory men. Because they cannot imagine something outside of their own perspective and experience.
dingybasement350
A lot of the people who spew the garbage about trans women being sexual predators know it's a lie. They're hoping that the people they say it to don't. And all too frequently people fall for it.
elementcarbon12
Predatory men aren’t going to do HRT and all the other things trans women do for them to alleviate their dysphoria. But because their transphobia is rooted in their homophobia they will never take the time to understand anything about gender dysphoria or transitioning.
On top of that, the transphobes also seem to forget about trans men.
Xenarion
To be fair, not all transgender people are on HRT, nor is it a requirement to be a "real" transgender person.
Mairoa
Yeah I felt like a perv as a kid in locker rooms and didn't know why. Turns out being a boy in the girls locker room/bathroom was the issue. Women are very free with their bodies in that space and I'm way too much of a horny man to be allowed in those spaces even if it aligns with what I was assigned at birth.
gsynth
They're not forgetting, it's just a direct feature of the patriarchy.
dbox
'Alphas' are worried they might be accidentally attracted to trans women and that quarter loaf would mean they're gay.
Tengenstein
Pretty sure predatory men don't need to self ID as trans to invade women's spaces.
ilikepot8os
"We don't need more gun laws because criminals don't obey laws!" -GOP
"We need to make it illegal to be a man in women's clothing in a bathroom, in case they try to rape a woman which...is already illegal" -Also the GOP
Or maybe they don't think rape is illegal? That would explain a lot.
2074red2074
From what I've gathered talking to conservatives, the concern is that a man dressed as a woman going into the women's restroom is not actionable if trans women are allowed in the women's restroom. You have to wait until someone is assaulted to do anything about it. A man could walk in, see that there are too many witnesses, and leave. You may be able to get them to reevaluate this stance when you share some of the stories of cis women being harassed because they look mannish.
ilikepot8os
If it wasn't for double standards they'd have no standards at all. They want to stop a potential crime, but they are also the ones who get pissed off they can't take their gun into a school (another potential crime)
2074red2074
They don't have standards, double or no. They like what they're told to like and hate what they're told to hate, because they're too stupid to form an actual opinion.
slinkiisu
I doubt that would change any minds. The cruelty is the point
2074red2074
Have you never talked to a conservative? Most of them are just stupid, not hateful.
dingybasement350
In my experience it's usually both.
TheEvenPrez
Estrogen depletes your muscle mass and many (not all) trans women get bottom surgery. Seems like a really impractical move if predation is the goal
SamCute1000
I'm on estrogen right know (trans mtf).
Yes, muscle mass decrease, but not magicly.
Like, I'm still strong (tbh, i'm suprised)
For the bottom, meaby. I want to, but it's scares me (I live in Québec, Canada. So it's paid by the province and taxes payer)
TheobromineAddict
This fictitious predation only requires wearing the disguise of women's clothing.
Becker37
And? Y'all should see the worry, recognize it for what it fucking is, see the legitimacy of, and understand instead of all this redirection and excuses. There's a goddamned reason we choose the fucking bear.
TheEvenPrez
Honey... we choose the bear too - https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/ncvs-trans-press-release/
[deleted]
[deleted]
SomeDetroitGuy
Which again shows that your issue is with cis men not trans women.
JustAnotherRandomCommenter
agreed. but the right wing rhetoric is essentially, there's no such thing as *actual trans women*. they're either mentally ill - in which case they should *relish* being treated (to turn them back into a cis man) and its unfortunate that our current treatments arnt 'perfect', OR they're actually cis men just pretending to be women to prey on women (in bathrooms, sports, whatever).
TheEvenPrez
Yep, which makes these bathroom ban laws even more absurd, because how do you enforce that without violating a lot of people’s privacy?
Littledirtybirdyfeet
Bottom surgery is 5% of trans people, just FYI.
EatThePath2
abdominal surgery is big scary
WoodfolkFae
Surgery in general is scary. Estrogen pills cause breast growth, so that is the top part already done without any surgery needed. Just takes a while to grow.
Littledirtybirdyfeet
As it should be. Transwomen need to self dilate. Sometimes (it occurs at a noninsignificant rate), that doesn't work, and they need to have surgery again. Sometimes revision surgery doesn't work, and their neovagina closes, lacks depth, or is overly narrow, leading to painful intercourse and dissatisfaction with their sex life.
Leithoa
The regret rate for gender affirming surgeries is lower than for lasik or knee replacement. Constantly harping about low rate complications is unhelpful bordering on transphobic. If people pursue it their surgeons will advise them of the risks.
Littledirtybirdyfeet
Vaginoplasty, in particular, has a high rate of stenosis and high rate of needing revisions
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9556011/
Littledirtybirdyfeet
Gender affirming surgeries in general, yes, which includes facial feminization and boobs, of coudse there is high satisfaction of those, but again, only 5% of the transindividuals have undergone bottom surgery
Clara93
To be fair, would definitely be higher if it was less expensive/more accessible
FrancsTireur
For me it's also because I'm afraid that if I take the operation on offer now; I might live long enough to see a better operation developed and not be able to have it.
FrancsTireur
Just gonna reply to all those below here cause I think it's highlighted something important; so far not one of us has said we simply don't want it which I think people should know, because there's far too many scummy transphobes and terfs out there today who think we just want a passable female "shell" so we can sneak into places and abuse CiS women.
Which is utter horseshit, perhaps the most outright lie I have ever heard perpetuated in my lifetime.
AddictedtoSoup
FOMO on "better" bits is a fantastic take on the decision factor!
villainousdescent
For me, it's because I'm significantly resistant to anesthetics.
skipperpop2525
I've never heard this point before! It raises an interesting dilema of how long you wait as well.
Tootsie1
That's me with corrective eye surgery, sort of. I'm too far gone for the newest procedures & by the time they approve it for someone like me (blind as a bat), there are at least 3 newer ones, that are supposed to be better/ safer.
AgathaHarkness
I was in that boat. -1250 in each eye. Docs wanted to do surgery on me many years ago before laser. I said nope. Too risky. Fast forward. I developed early onset cataracts thanks to being so myopic. Had cataract surgery, which gave me new lenses and perfect vision, and insurance covered most of it.
TheEvenPrez
Very much this. Cosmetic would be ok but if my friend can get a functioning womb thanks to medical breakthroughs that would be fuckin sweet
FrancsTireur
100% that's always been my dream, not just to look like a woman but to be able to have a baby and do everything they can. People find that weird, but I don't think it is; afterall I was born in the wrong body, why wouldn't I want everything a biological woman can have.
Margrave9000
Do not medicalize transness. A transwoman is a transwoman regardless of HRT or bottom surgery status. Trans people are born their true gender, you know. Bigot.
TheEvenPrez
Do not recite the ancient words to me witch, I was there when they were written.
IPoisonedDorcasMutton
While I'm onboard with the first two sentences, you need to pull way the fuck back on the last two. Not every trans person sees themselves that way, and acting as though you speak for every trans individual is not cool. Source: Trans girl who still views her old self as a boy. And there's literally no reason to call the commenter a bigot.
PlanckEraWasMyBestEra
Same, but the other way around (trans guy here). Hi5
IPoisonedDorcasMutton
Hi-five!
SpectralSpider
I know your feelings are pretty raw right now, but please point that energy somewhere more productive. Also, not every transwoman necessarily feels that they were born their gender, and there's genderqueer people to consider, too.
PlanckEraWasMyBestEra
Agreed. Also I'm a trans guy who regularly says "when I used to be a woman". It doesn't mean it's okay for other people to use this terminology for every trans person, because we are all individuals who have our own feelings on things, but for whatever internal reason, phrasing it this way feels most comfortable to me.
Don't generalize entire groups.
obviouslyrob
This guy is actually a far-right troll who apes the caricature of what, say, Libs of TikTok imagines a SJW sounds like.
SpectralSpider
I thought that, and can't disprove that, but they've got a lot of posts. I find it easier to believe that they're a tenderqueer than them being pathetic enough to do this for so long.
obviouslyrob
It’s Imgur, the patheticness of some of the users cannot be overstated.
Aerina
Bigot? You would call someone who's honestly trying to defend trans women a bigot? You realize this is the reason so many people stop being allies towards the trans community when we attack people for minor mistakes. Get over yourself.
Artebudz
Im technically trans, but ive completely disconnected myself from the trans community due to trans people being my biggest source of abuse. Don't even like referring to myself as being trans due to it.
Littledirtybirdyfeet
Absolutely, and thank you. I've been on the receiving end of this for daring to suggest the effects of puberty blockers are not written in stone and which studies are allowed to be published and highly polticalized. People like this are shooting themselves and other trans folk in the foot.
Leithoa
Puberty blockers have been used since the 70s & 80s their safety & side effects are well known. Spreading fear, uncertainty, & doubt is harmful.
Littledirtybirdyfeet
It wasn't their safety that I was referring to, but their efficacy for relieving depression & suicidal ideation, which is to say there was no significant improvement or worsening. This study's author didn't want to publish solely for political reasons, and that's the bigger red flag for me.
Littledirtybirdyfeet
Wow, this is incredibly anti-intellectual and definitely emotional reasoning. Medicalize means to view something in medical terms. To receive gender affirming care to begin with, trans individuals have to be viewed through medical terms. Not being in the body you want to be is a medical issue. The process of treating trans people is medicalization.
Margrave9000
'Medicalize' in the sense of making the recognition of transness conditional upon undertaking medical interventions.
Many trans people are not doing that for various reasons and that does not invalidate them at all. It's an obsolate, harmful view.
PlanckEraWasMyBestEra
Yes, transmedicalism is harmful, but nothing they said was remotely transmed. It feels like you're searching for something to be mad about and directing that anger at an ally (or even possible other trans person, you don't know) rather than the people who actually want to harm us.
Littledirtybirdyfeet
How on earth did they make "transness" dependent on gender affirming surgery based on what they wrote? They were saying some wouldn't have the (forgive the callousness) "equipment" for penetrative rape, you know, the thing real pearl clutching bigots are scared of?
Leithoa
That's not what medicalization means.
Littledirtybirdyfeet
Google it, like I did to double-check myself before speaking. I can't do your homework for you.
Littledirtybirdyfeet
I know...
Leithoa
Your comment suggests otherwise.
Leithoa
There are multiple 'bottom surgeries' it's not one thing.
briham86
SadsPikkelson
Once again, trying to have a logical argument with the illogical. These are people who FEEL icky about trans people, are embedded in communities of hate, or are afraid to acknowledge that they may be trans or at least trans-curious. That feeling doesn't magically disappear because you've made a good argument
AngelheadedGold
At core, it feels to me as though most negative reactions to things that don’t directly impact a person have a lot to do with discomfort in thinking and talking about those topics.
Like, in their world being gay has negative connotations and by showing openness to homosexuality the person is associating themselves with gayness.
They’re uncomfortable about all of it, if they were secure then it wouldn’t be an issue to speak at least neutrally.
UnityInArms
Democrats elected new progressive candidates across the swing states, and that shows they had heavy support from the people.
What’s weird is Trump still won all 7 swing states, and he won mostly due to bullet ballots. Statistically the amount of bullet ballots he had in key swing states are impossibly high.
This video talks about the data:
https://youtu.be/zlOCucpEs5o?si=o0IrIBBROEFAQU8_
Sinasohn
You can be a rapist and get elected president. Twice.
Even non-trans women can't get elected.
dingybasement350
If you made a list of US presidents who were rapists or sexual predators it'd probably be AT LEAST as long as the list of them who weren't.
InternetAnonymityplz
I want to say half feels pretty high, but then again power corrupting and all that... thank you for this very disturbing thought experiment.
dingybasement350
Power also tends to attract the kind of people who are least suited to what that entails.
HolyShitDudeCalmDown
Maybe in YOUR society. Rapists in my society are very much treated worse than trans people.
theworldcouldbeflat
It doesn't matter which country you are in, that is not true anywhere...
dingybasement350
You must not be from the US.
HolyShitDudeCalmDown
Correct.
dingybasement350
Americans love rapists as much as they hate black people.
HolyShitDudeCalmDown
Yup, seems like it.
BramsonEldritch
Please don't lump us all together. Not everyone here voted for the oompa loompa.
littlecoatfatguy
No, but see, if you just tell a rapist he’s not allowed to go into a room, then he won’t do any raping.
acuteavocado
everyone knows rape is always foiled by a blue sign of a stick figure in a triangle dress
TheDollop
Are you saying we should just get rid of all laws, because criminals don't follow them anyway?
Let's make breaking and entering legal, because most people wouldn't do that, and the people that would don't care that it's illegal.
AbeoLogos
They're saying that we shouldn't make new laws with huge collateral damage when the core conduct the law allegedly exists to address is already quite illegal under other laws.
TheDollop
That makes sense, but in the same line of thinking if there is a law stating that breaking into someone's house is illegal why does everyone install locks on their doors and windows? It's because they want something there to try and prevent people from breaking that law when they're not around.
AbeoLogos
Unless you think there should be genital inspections to access public washrooms, I'm not sure what relevance you think this has to the actual subject at hand? There are fundamentally no material barriers of any kind to sexual assault contained within these laws.
HelpTheWretched
"It should be illegal for black people to be anywhere in the vicinity of a place with locked doors, because black people are likely to commit breaking and entering."
....would be the B&E equivalent of these bathroom laws.
TheDollop
It's only an equivalent argument to "it should be illegal for anyone born a male to enter a woman's bathroom because they are likely to commit a crime", which is not what most people are saying.
A woman's bathroom is and always has been a safe space for women to conduct their 'business' separate from men. Whether it's a concern about being harassed or abused, a protection thing for young girls, or if it's just a comfort thing, it's besides the point. It's a right that women currently have.
TheDollop
Most people, myself included, would agree that teams women should be able to use women's bathrooms.
But unfortunately the collateral risk of allowing trans women into female bathrooms is that a man with nefarious intentions CAN then put on a dress, say he is trans, and then walk into a women's bathroom where a group of young girls happen to be.
In the end it becomes a question of - is the risk worth it?
TheDollop
As a father of a teenage daughter I say no. Many would disagree, and that's ok. But jumping calling everyone transphobic if they have a genuine point to make about safety for woman and young girls is not going to help anyone.
Ironically, I believe that type of immediate reaction and name calling that actually turns people against the trans cause.