SquirrelWithATophat
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This pamphlet cites a couple Washington Post articles, but since those are paywalled, here are some links to other articles about it.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/cindygordon/2024/02/25/ai-is-accelerating-the-loss-of-our-scarcest-natural-resource-water/
https://sdgs.un.org/sites/default/files/2024-05/Gupta%2C%20et%20al._AIs%20excessive%20water%20consumption.pdf
https://fortune.com/article/how-much-water-does-ai-use/
https://planetdetroit.org/2024/10/ai-energy-carbon-emissions/
wythra
and now that a disruptive new technology exists, we can rely on a strong response from Congress to regulate the energy requirements... right?
iamgnat
Like vehicle emissions or consumer recycling, this is trying to put the problem on the individual person when their consumption is a drop in the bucket. Companies going nuts with integration is the real problem. Consumers can stop using it completely, but they'll still trigger it with all kinds of interactions.
TheMilliner
Unfortunately, for as long as techbro idiots continue believing that AI is in any way useful for anything except hyperspecific research uses it's going to continue being used for stupid shit like rendering the Five Guys restaurant as an anthropomorphic humanoid with ultra-detailed feet, but wrong because they still can't actually produce any images without significant errors like too many toes or clothes that are part of the subject's skin.
TektronixTDS360
And then I end up drinking another bottle of water while I fix up that 100 word email because what the LLM spit out was actually ass.
woozle
Jimthebutler
It take water.
SquirrelWithATophat
TL;DR: AI isn't just a program that runs on your computer or phone. It relies on massive data centers and each time AI is used (even for just generating a short email) it uses a ton of water. Water is one of the most important scarce resources on earth and it is being wasted by people too lazy or cheap to do things themselves or hire humans to do for them.
woozle
oooh, okay. yeah, I have no use for it. It's seems stupid anyway. I'm a bit of a Luddite at times.
RiddingBean
Solar panels are cleaned with water every day around the globe. Stop using solar panels! /s
Seethreepeeoh
AI is simply computing power. Electrical power creates heat, heat needs to be cooled. Using evaporative heat rejection lowers PUE (power usage effectiveness, the measure of data centre efficiency) but increases WUE (water usage effectiveness). Nb there's no such thing as the cloud - It's just someone else's computer.
Jimthebutler
In most cases it is computing power used to deliver word salad in a manner it thinks you will see as reasonably plausible from its data band of other people's works.
Seethreepeeoh
What has that to do with heat rejection?
OregonComputerGuy
This seems likely true within limits, there are many advances in technology, and who knows, the person who is born to build a new way to interface with a computer may be reading a sci fi book at this very moment and considering the possibilities in architecture it needs to be partially organic just not Borg like
theyallwenttoMexico
What kind of cooling system 'uses up' so much water? My car's cooling system is sealed and works very well without 'using up' coolant.
SquirrelWithATophat
Water evaporates as it is heated and hot water/steam isn't good for cooling things off. While that doesn't remove it from existence, it still temporarily makes it unavailable for use. And if enough of it is being tied up with massive cooling systems that means less water is available for other things, like consumption, watering crops and putting out fires.
theyallwenttoMexico
The post implies the water used is used up with words like, 'drink' and 'pouring out'. It isn't. Anyway, why not use a more efficient coolant?
SquirrelWithATophat
Because the people running it all don't give a shit about the environment or how AI is negatively impacting anyone. They only care about profit, and unfortunately with many things the smarter or more efficient way sometimes costs more.
It's like with other goods or services. If you want a product that will work better or last longer you usually have to pay more for it.
TheMilliner
Coolant is expensive, water isn't. Coolant also doesn't have, y'know, dedicated infrastructure to pipe it directly to your home, building or server farm like water does at the cost of pennies a day.
RiddingBean
How about we stop using water cooling in computers at home to save water usage?
SquirrelWithATophat
I've always been under the impression that most cooling systems on home computers tend to use liquids other than water.
RiddingBean
This website, provides detailed information on a product that is used on computers that are water cooled, including computers that’s running AI.
https://www.titanrig.com/xspc-pure-premix-distilled-pc-coolant-1-liter-0375xs010700xx.html?color=198
You can find many videos on YouTube explaining how water cooling works on computers, including servers.
RiddingBean
Home computers, use distilled water with additives that prevent corrosion and prevent fungus in water. Computer centers that use water cooling, use same product/s in a closed loop water cooling system. The articles are misleading! Companies like google aren’t using water from a faucet, otherwise there would be heavy corrosion and contamination in the cooling parts and a huge water bill. Instead, they used close loop, similar products that are sold to consumers to water cooling their computers.
mafiacarstarter
And the water is forever lost? How long until the oceans disappear from water usage?
It doesn't make the water disappear. This is dishonest.
The power usage is bad. AI is being used irresponsibly and destructively. It needs a great deal of additional regulation and a strong shift in focus.
TheMilliner
There is a distinct level of misunderstanding in your post here. Yes, water doesn't just 'disappear', it's evaporated and enters the water cycle.
The reason it 'disappears', however, is because only a VERY SMALL amount of the water used becomes FRESH water. There is a VERY LARGE DIFFERENCE between fresh water (usable by humans/animals for drinking and etc) and contaminated or sea water. FRESH water doesn't regenerate nearly as much as is used, which is why using it for AI is a massive waste.
Jimthebutler
The process of water being heated /cooled is a transfer and waste of energy, energy mostly provided by coal or other fossil fuels.
Altering the water cycle has an impact on the ecosystem if it is open loop( this presumes a negative one) and the pumping of water from underground uses further resources. They aren't wrong about it being wasteful, but I'm not sure about the direct impact or methods and further research is required.
T3sl4co1l
Not entirely wrong, but to bring nuance to the point, or try to explain it, would detract from the point. Maybe such an assumption is itself a strong detractor. Maybe we aren't the audience such articles are aimed at. (To be clear: while *fresh water* is renewable, how much is so, varies from region to region, and any given region can only supply so much. In some regions, it very much is an exhaustible resource, and aquifers are actively being drained -- and will never refill.)
T3sl4co1l
(In the case where demand outstrips renewal but no permanent damage is done (e.g. tapping a lake or river supplied by rain/snow), the same point applies, but as a difference of rates rather than an absolute quantity.)
bladderinfection
Responsibility and capitalism are divorced in our broken society.
mafiacarstarter
Lying about "disappearing" water isn't helping.
TheMilliner
Because it IS disappearing. Every AI prompt costs fresh water being used as coolant which ISN'T added back to the fresh water supply simply by how water cycles work. Most of it is lost to seawater despite drawing on non-renewable aquifers, reservoirs and water tables.
So yes, saying it is 'disappearing' is accurate, just misleading IF you don't understand how little fresh water exists and how little is replenished after being used. Why do you think we work so hard to filter/treat grey water?
SquirrelWithATophat
By that logic there is no excuse for people running out of water in a bad drought, because it's "not really disappearing". When water is being used by something or is unavailable due to having temporarily evaporated it cannot be used for other things. Like drinking, putting out fires or watering crops.
Claiming we have plenty of water just because the oceans are big is ignorant, since we can't drink ocean water. It has to purified before we can use it for other purposes.
mafiacarstarter
There is no shortage of water. There is a shortage of clean, purified water. This is because profits are dramatically higher during "shortages", so there is consistent, systemic insufficiency of water purification.
Piping oil thousands of miles is perfectly fine, even if it's tar sands oil that isn't profitable before it gets to the pie, but somehow, water can't be piped more than a few miles.
It's crap. 100% pure bullshit.
Thanks for buying into the bullshit and defending water profiteering.
SquirrelWithATophat
"Defending water profiteering"?
I'm not the one defending companies tying up a scarce resource and implying people should just go desalinate ocean water so big companies can use up more of the limited fresh water.
mafiacarstarter
2/3 of the Earth are covered in this "scarce" resource.
Also, no implication. I'm saying it explicitly.
Water purification, water filtration, water treatment, desalination... They are all ways to turn non-potable water into potable water.
The only reason we don't have plenty for everything is so that the insufficient amount currently being produced can be sold at greater profit.
SquirrelWithATophat
There are TWO types of water: fresh water and salt water. Fresh water is scarce. This is the consensus in the scientific community.
You are quite literally (and just now blatantly admitted to) defending rich companies using up a scare resource and basically saying all the poor people should fuck off and find their own. Completely ignoring the fact that most people CANNOT do this. Especially when they're already working 2-3 jobs just to barely be able to afford to keep a roof over their head.