deaththeunholy
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One man whose ways of thinking have helped shape my own when it comes to problem-solving. Completely agree here about the joy of fixing these things
FP edit: forgot to include that if you don’t recognize the legend in the flesh this is Linus Torvalds who created and was the lead developer of the Linux kernel AND Git which most major software development processes use today in some form.
blzrdphoto
I program and I come home from work quite often sad and mad and frustrated and annoyed and all the emotions. My wife used to tell me that I should get a new job but then I always reply, no way this is the best job I have ever had. It’s so satisfying to accomplish that hard task that you spent a week trying to figure out.
FlyingButtPliers
So true. I've been programming since I was 12. It's occasionally actually euphoric to solve a complicated problem.
erwinmahatma
Agreed. It’s worrisome when you write complicated code and it works on the first try.
deaththeunholy
When the pod health check goes green and 12 layers of code abstraction comes together. It’s glorious
BoobJiggle
I find the act of writing code cathartic, especially when you don't build to test for a couple hours cuz you're implementing some giant feature, and then it just fucking works. Almost as good as nutting
ceasefiredammit
Haven't run Linux in years (reformed IT guy) but I smiled when I saw Linus.
linexnewt
I've run it exclusively on my PC since 1998. It is absolutely astounding how far it has come. At work, I still cringe when Windows10 is installing updates, but at home, I happily install updates whenever they are available. Takes seconds, and I only reboot if new kernel updates are installed.
ceasefiredammit
Username and everything. Awesome. I still love Linux. I just spend way less time on a computer these days.
GeorgeCostabaplaps
I started Linux two-three years ago. I do not regret one moment of frustration.
nullundefined
I recommend reading his biography (as actual book on paper): https://archive.org/details/justforfun00linu And when you love technology and code read his explanations, especially if you’re familiar with C or C++.
deaththeunholy
Little too familiar but I’ll definitely check it out
nullundefined
The books is about “how he stumbled into all this”, the story. That’s for everyone. With explanations I refer to his seldom posts at slashdot or LWN or whatever where he tells about handling pointers and so on (only C/C++ and maybe Rust).
Akintunde
Yeah but when your nginx ingress doesn't work all you can do is cry and it's been a week and I hate it
deaththeunholy
What’s wrong? Do you not have your ports setup correctly to the service? Or labels not consistent? Mismatch on endpoints being set for DNS and CORS?
Our ingresses only do a single endpoint each so we can scale them easier but the ingress itself is only like 50 lines of YAML
Akintunde
So unfortunately it looks to be either the company master ingress (which I can't touch or see) or our master ingress minion (also can't)
But basically we handle sensitive information and I want to reject non HTTPS requests outright, but some ingress before the one I can change is returning a 301 but in that the request verb becomes GET, so GET requests still work but others return a 405. I tried turning off ssl redirects but I think it happens long before our ingress minion. Among other things.
FallingStar7669
That's grand if you have the weeks to bang your head against it. Most of the time, you don't get paid if you take that long.
whadyameanthatnamestaken
I fix house and car shit all the F’ing Time! Drives me crazy!!
I’ve got it down to 2 trips to lowes HD or ace now.
First time to buy every conceivable thing I will need - extra tools, extra materials, contingency items, 2nd contingency items!! 3rd f’n contingency items!!!
I get it done (cussing a blue streak) and the 2nd trip is returning all the unused shit and getting my $$ back.
The time going back and forth more than 2X is a huge morale killer.
Took me years to learn this.
😂😂😂😂
umibozusan
there's nothing more rewarding to me than figuring out a problem with a real life consequence. I absolutely understand what Linus says here and why they do what they do. They have made a huge difference in the world, and they can say it's been a really hard job every day. But they made it.
azazyel
As a QA running down the scenario for a bug can be fun too. Once made an app crash by shaking an iPad like and etch a sketch
deaththeunholy
Janet Jackson’s song Rhythm Nation if played too close to a computer would crash old hard drives is the funnest bit of problem solving I’m sure anyone ever discovered https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20220816-00/?p=106994
TransAutisticMakinFARTsGoBallistic
And, after a short rabbit hole down to actually listening to that song, I suddenly understand why the cryptofascists spent *so much* time ripping Janet Jackson down for that 2004 Superbowl halftime stunt. They'd had sixteen years of fuming about their kids getting introduced to concepts like "social justice" etc.
FoxySpirit
What, every kid needs to learn that. It's completely unjust when I work hard every day but that lousy bum of my neighbor gets money just by faking a handicap. They rob us blind with taxes every day to enrich the lazy. And break to colour line, no red vs blue, we must all work together to right this wrong! A better, more just way of life for all! /evil spindoctor
DanOrtega
BRB, there is a whole education department where I live that works on stone age equipment... and their employees are assholes.
falconchris
The process part is the interesting bit, the code is just the details.
Uforia478
I have been watching a lot of pirate software lately and it makes me feel like I am not a total piece of shit for getting stuck sometimes https://youtube.com/shorts/Ut2YF7j318I?si=kdiZYVJN_TurH_KW
kojitaru
Love Thor for the positivity he brings to our field. He’s brilliant and still stays relatable
TransAutisticMakinFARTsGoBallistic
Meanwhile, problems created entirely because of the vendor refusing to play ball are *not* fun. (nVidia, FUCK YOU for the decades you spent refusing to open anything up and actively sabotaging the ability of others to write replacement GPU drivers.)
SomeUser2
As someone in it (not Dev) this still holds up. Nothing better than trying to solve something for a couple of days. And then all of a sudden when you are not working the solution plops into your mind. Minutes later you test it and solve it. Best feeling ever.
BellsTheorem
I did programming for fun. Never applied it to anything other than my own satisfaction of having solved the problem I was trying to overcome. It's like the best puzzle.
deaththeunholy
Professional programming is just someone paying you to figure out the problem they’re already in
BellsTheorem
I should have paid myself. I could have called myself a professional then.
sadurdaynight
Coding becomes exponentially more annoying the more "decision by committee" bullshit you have. When you have a problem, and can think up and code a soltuion the way you want, it's interesting. But, when you have to hear from the BA/PM/PO what the problem is, and they put odd restrictions in place on how you can solve the problem, it becomes a huge PITA. And you want to get directly w/ the end-users, but you open that door then end-users will bypass other red tape and harass the shit out of you.
KareemCheezItz
Solving a technical problem also releases a whole bunch of dopamine in your brain
JohnSmithterms
I have been programming professionally for 20 years or so now. I enjoy it. But I hate corporations and a lot of the tech culture in medium / large tech companies. And competition is 10x more than it was 10 years ago. Universities are churning out comp sci grads like a factory. I want to do something else now.
creepyguyheygurl
I haven't been doing it quite as long but feel the same. What other careers have you considered? I'm thinking of one of the trades thats a little more gentle on the body but still allows me to be active etc.
JohnSmithterms
I have some ideas for products I can build myself and as I know web development I can sell it myself too. But as for working for other companies. I cannot give you any good ideas I am sorry. Sky diving instructor ... :D I am fortunate to be in a position where I can work part time. So plan to find something that is not soul destroying and just do that 2 or 3 days a week and work on my own project 2 or 3 days a week.
isaidsomethingcool
He should talk to the lady who asked a retail employee to put a Lego set together for her.
youreathing
I love how there's no name posted. I guess everyone should just know who this is?
mynamespaul
If there is any tech person everyone should know… then this is probably them, yah.
deaththeunholy
Check the tags yo, it’s Linus Torvalds
youreathing
Thanks. Tags weren't showing up for some reason.
deaththeunholy
Also updated with an FP edit. Thanks for pointing it out. He’s so recognizable in my field that I forget he’s just a random Finnish-American white dude to some people
Jamerperson
Tags are hidden by default on mobile for some stupid reason
rabbitron
NEVER LET THE MACHINE WIN
donutsauce
If you have some more links or whatever for stuff like this, I'd be interested.
deaththeunholy
Just look up Linus Torvalds, dude has some good ideas on this subject, nothing in my back pocket though
PragmaticPrimate
Definitely look up his opinion of Nvidia
deaththeunholy
Well he’s not wrong
darkchiron
100%. I often find debugging and working out issues to be more engaging than just chugging out new code.
Axelxdisepic
that's just the souls like games in a nutshell too
VodkaReindeer
Which is more important, Linux or Git? I'm not a programmer but I imagine if Linux didn't exist something else would have been developed. Would the same be true for git?
deaththeunholy
TECHNICALLY, both have competitors in the marketplace today, But if you work in it you know those are the top dogs. And Linux is still the only free Operating System. Minimal bloat, minimal hardware requirements, fast loads, can run ANY programming language
Git though is the entire process in which GitHub.com was founded behind and is the globally accepted standard to collaborate in code-writing
deaththeunholy
Then Microsoft bought GitHub, a platform built off of just utilizing Git globally and remotely, for $7.5 billion dollars in 2018
deaththeunholy
Talk myself into circles here but I’d be willing to bet that 95% of the servers hosting GitHub.com are running Linux
comacomacomacomachameleon
"you never want to have process problems." Exactly. I will work on frustrating technical problems all day, but I will not tolerate bureaucratic bullshit.
TinyBadger101
You know what's worse than process problems? Pointing out that doing it XYZ way will cause process problems, and being ignored, and then 6 months later everyone is like "oh shit this process sucks". Yeah. I know. I told you it would suck. What do you want me to do about it now? It's gonna take a lot more effort to make a good process now that you've put in a bad one.
mynamespaul
Problem finders and naysayers are cheap and ubiquitous. If you had a solution at the time, implement it now. If you didn’t, your criticism wasn’t worth much.
FrankJustice1
Being in a position to help sanity-check and streamline processes is amazing. It's like finding an elegantly simple code fix - it's just code for people
Alaaraaf
I have never thought about it like this before.
I do tax compliance work. There's a lot of problem solving and back and forth with technical arguments... But it's exactly as he says when you solve a problem. But all the stupid processes are INFURIATING
TransAutisticMakinFARTsGoBallistic
So are the loopholes scammers have used in the past. Remember the ol' "skim off the fractions-of-a-penny that are lost from rounding" one?
1NerdyDirty
As a PM this hits…way to close to my day to day duties.
bennux
As an aspiring PM myself (IT field), any advice? I am going through Coursera Google PM cert course now but would appreciate any input, thanks!
mynamespaul
Good practitioners are good PMs. Learn the field (technically) before you become a PM init. Otherwise you’ll be playing catch-up your entire career… and no you can’t learn a field to a professional level from online courses. You need to do the job for a few years.
Blank1612
Of the 20+ PM's I have known during my short career in the field, not one of them had been a developer before. Best one I've had could at least relate to the challenges a little cause he had done some courses...
mynamespaul
If you’ve had a “short career” and have dealt with 20+ project managers, I think it might be fair to surmise you haven’t spent huge amounts of time working with each of them? respectfully, I am speaking from two decades of experience from the POV of practitioner, pm and director level positions. Some of the PMs I’m talking about, I’ve worked with almost a decade. I’m not necessarily right because I’ve been doing this longer, but I believe strongly on this advice.
kumagororyu
Told my wife this the other day putting in a ceiling fan. Told her I don't mind it. She said really? You swear and cuss the while time. It's true but the feeling of accomplishment at a job well done... worth it.
mikeatike
If it had a light fixture in it you can say "yeah, now I know how many programmers it takes to change a light fixture."
And if you're not a programmer, the answer is "zero".
Ninjainslippers
I just did a shock/strut job on my car. Did I have some blood and road grime on my knuckles? Yes. Did I worry my neighbors with my loud cursing and grunting? Yes. Did I do a job that was quoted at $1500 for $250 in parts and about $100 in tools that I'll use again? Also yes. Now I'm clean, have a torque wrench, car's fixed, and I have an extra $1000. Very much worth it.
Itslukus
What are we doing with our extra 1,000$ comrade?
themikep
Bill Burr with some relevance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sec8oU220IQ
CardeasIV
Exactly what i remembered :D Its just part of the process!
EverythingWithFries
Last year I installed a whole house humidifier. I had to install a compression fitting for the first time. Honeywell also did *not* include the correct parts in the box. I also discovered my whole house shut off valve did not work. But after mapping the entire control scheme, multiple trips to Home Depot for the correct fittings, wiring it worked as soon as I turned it on. Sometimes it's about setting your own bar a little bit higher
SlightChungus
Fought this laser cutting system for three days couldn't stop this weird error, intermittent but only popped up when the machine was getting to operating temps. Finally found a cable deep inside the main cabinet that from the factory was damaged had nothing to do with the error but the emf that it generated was just enough to trip a sensor once it got warm. I let out the loudest FINALLY it's on my shelf to this day.
Affray
I mostly swear(constantly) when I have to go three steps back to fix something I missed or something is extra tedious thanks to big fingers.
aducksayswhat
I think the foundation to this is being in a space where you can afford the time/effort in working through the problem, if you just wanted to get the install done and move on then it's less fun.
kumagororyu
Full disclosure, we're prepping our house to sell. That means paint, carpet cleaning and (so far) 2 new ceiling fans. It's very much a case of done and on to the next thing. But wether it's 4 seconds or 4 years, when you turn the breaker on and everything works as intended. It's a very good feeling.
VashTehStampede
As long as your brain releases serotonin about accomplishments, you're golden!
TransAutisticMakinFARTsGoBallistic
The moment when you turn it on and everything gets along like a house on fire is certainly a feeling!
FoolishMortal
Rubber Duck debugging: explain your problem to a rubber duck... it's a thing.
deaththeunholy
My Solaire and Oscar rubber ducks that live on my desk
FairfaxJack
“I had my dick in a vise and now I don’t I can’t believe how good it feels!”
FairfaxJack
Seriously though, I’m a contractor/carpenter/handyman and I love working through the process and fixing things
zubax
Linux is the best coding environment ever. Fight me. Also, Fuck you python! you spawn of the devil and public toilet.
sadurdaynight
Python has done a great job of helping more non technical, non programmer types get into coding and automation. It's also popular in data sci, bc a lot of the heavy lifting is under the hood of a few lines of code. They compile a lot of the common use stuff to c lib calls, so python isn't as slow as it used to be. My issue w python is it can be tricky coding something complex from scratch wo precanned libs. It's hard to tell if some func calls are standalone or through a var drilldown.
whatsisname
I wouldn't say python is, but "import" and the package management absolutely is
whadyameanthatnamestaken
Thank you.gif
deaththeunholy
But… but… many Linux distros run on/with Python. They install it at the onset and use it for like half of the process calls, if not more. Still Python 2 in most cases though. If you uninstall it the OS won’t run correctly
zubax
I didn't say python is useless. I said python is devil's spawn.
RevengeIsIceCream
You take that back! python is beautiful and a joy to code in!
deaththeunholy
So, you’re saying you enjoy working in the devil’s spawn’s building? Just not the head honcho themselves? Yeah I think we all relate to something like that