AndyTexas
71889
1490
16
Source:
https://x.com/andrewleereal/status/1196855177095110656
Jan 14, 2024 1:31 PM
AndyTexas
71889
1490
16
Source:
https://x.com/andrewleereal/status/1196855177095110656
Base841
Twelve years ago I made a code word with my parents that we would use if anyone in the family called asking for money. No code, no cash. Never had to use it, but we were ready.
zeacorzeppelin10
My grandmother doesn't know how to do video calls and wouldn't give money even if she could figure out the video call.
Bunnies007
There was something on BBC Radio 4, here in the UK, where a journalist fed his voice into an AI voice simulator. It took just a couple of hours to iron out the wrinkles and perfect the voice. They then called the journalist's mother and the AI voice told her he had his bag stolen and he needed money ASAP. She readily agreed. Of course, the journalist called his mother back to explain what was going on. So, yes, this threat is very real.
bobyran
Code words. Grandma needs my codeword to let her know it's real. We've already talked about this. :)
mikeatike
They already do this to people with audio only and without any voice manipulation.
LargeAlbatross
We need a solution for this problem that we imagined.
ShinyTheDark
Passwords. If your grandson can't tell you a random word you have chosen as a password, he is not your grandson. Simple solution. If you don't have contact with them because they ignore you all time and THEN demand money... well. Ask in person or do not ask at all.
tjn2000
My family's solution is nobody has any money, so they know nobody would call and ask for some.
spiceass9000
Hey! I also am using that solution! My grandparents on my dad’s side had money at one point but have blown it all. My mom’s side does alright but really just enough to cover cost of living. And he’s progressing with dementia slowly but surely so that will eventually suck up any savings he may have
CreepyPhlox
This doesn’t work. My sister’s MIL didn’t have any money but they still targeted her relentlessly. She was suffering from dementia as well.
CreepyPhlox
They were trying to get her to ask other ppl for money.
WellThisIsHappening
Same, I do love the "Hey mum! Lost my phone, using my friend's phone, please message me on this WhatsApp!" text I received every other day from different numbers. My imaginary children clearly inherited my capacity to lose things and forgetfulness. They forget I have no money and I keep forgetting I have children.
Rignak
This right here.
unfortunatelynotdeadyet
Already discussed with my elderly parents. If me or any of their children/grandchildren call asking for money. Ask a personal question. My suggestion was about one of our holidays. No IA can find that information.
vlej
that sounds like a challenge.
mobbatbarnmedautomatvapen
We have had several phonecalls like this already. Haven't heard of vidz used yet :(
rrrwine1337
In our family there is a passcode. 'My loving daughter, what is the passcode? I know you are in hysterics, but I need the word. Yes tell the officer to have your appointed attorney tell us the code'... been there done that
AranaDiscoteca
The solution is the same as the pre-deep fake solution. Teach people that nothing is paid for in Lowe's gift cards, slow down despite urgency, and check with known numbers.
TheChunguskaEvent
my grandma is going to be all “stop calling me, I died in 2004”
jamandtoast
You are the grandma referred to in this meme.
CityYeti
"I know, I know, you don't want the IRS to know you're still alive, but I need money."
jctaffy69
NarratesTheDarkerStory
RMAO
jctaffy69
ursusaurus
Lmao
kodiak931155
My grandma is gonna be all "stop calling me you died in 2023"
LehmanParty
I'm like 30% sure the timeline split Donnie Darko style somewhere around 2016
boostcreep
BurningVeryImportantThings
She really can't be bothered to care less.
blainetog
I'm sorry for your loss.
vlej
pretty sure they have apps to do that too, already.
NuthinButts
They’ll reverse it, grannycam from beyond the grave.
ctriis87
*from the grave
TheChunguskaEvent
sorry, grams is gonna have to urn her own money
GlenL
Just wait till your grandma video calls you asking for money
LetThemEatPie
I don't think the video will help. It's pretty dark inside that coffin
Beefkins
That cell phone battery life, though! So impressive!
AncientBreadcrumbs
Classic early 00‘s phone. Truly last a lifetime & beyond. Not like those smartphones nowdays
DoctorFriendly
1) have a relationship with your grandparents. 2) tell them you'd never call them and demand money.
VodkaReindeer
Wouldn't you want to have the option of calling them. Agree on a password instead of "never".
[deleted]
[deleted]
VodkaReindeer
The option of calling them when you can't access your money.
DoctorFriendly
Bank locally instead?
VodkaReindeer
You're right. Never leaving your hometown IS easier than agreeing on a password with your loved ones!
IDownVoteJerks
Every family should have a word or phrase that they use only in these situations to prove who they say they are. It can be as easy as “what’s the secret phrase?” “Cheese puffs”. Don’t wait for the government to regulate the industry to protect you.
BillHubbard
Code word..
https://xkcd.com/806/
MapleSyrupMafia
People who cares about their family should take the time to educate their older family members about scams. It's always the same shit... "I'm in jail, your son is in jail, I'm stuck somewhere, help me step brother, yadayadayada!" A lot of older people don't have computers, but they can get a phone call and go to the bank to withdraw money or have it transferred. It's everyone's job to protect people, including the banks.
aslum
Dear cheese puffs, it's me your daughter. I desperately need money for life saving drugs.
oznobz
We've had a secret phrase since I was a kid. It was so if we needed someone new to suddenly pick us up from school or something like that.
imakesoap
Yup, I taught my kids the same thing. If they don’t know the secret word, I didn’t send them
drduffer
I’ve been planning on deepfaking myself and sending appeals to my family and friends asking for emergency funds. I’ll let you know how it goes.
CulpaScintilla
I guess you could call it meta-deepfake; it's so deeply fake that the fakeness itself is fake. It's just the real you filming yourself.
drduffer
Shhh. Don’t give away my secrets!
ButteryBiscuitBass
Not just grandpa and grandma, we all need to be vigilant!
ThrowAwayAcct0000
Constant vigilance is the way to go for everything: governments, businesses, possible scams, the foundation of your house, family... if you have something, someone else wants to take it from you
mzamurman
Free healthcare like the rest of the world.Bish bash bosh
zeiji
grama would do a figure that big via her bank to your account, not an account, might click a "e-wallet link" for $1000 for car repairs tho.
zeiji
not saying free healthcare isn't a good ide, but those costs where they occur are to big for quick scams like this.
LychFinderGeneral
Unfortunately grandma voted against that her whole life
ScarecrowMagic410a
It's ironic how wildly out of touch that is. They've been getting ravaged for decades already by phone and TV and email scams and you don't give a shit.
JustSeinfeldQuotes
Someone called my Mom posing as a grandson. My Mom knows she doesn't have any.
landbaronness42
My mother in law got a call asking for bail money for her grandson (generic name). “He deserves jail let him rot!” She laughed and laughed. She doesn’t scam easily.
nevergoingtogiveyouupnevergoingtoletyoudown
Educate them. Learning is a lifelong experience. You stop learning, you fall behind.
JeremyPeevin
I'm not sure anyone is actually going to do that right now. Plenty of senior citizens are getting fleeced I'm sure, I see it daily. They still use the tried and true methods. No reason to take a chance on new technology when the old ones work just fine.
BennyBean1
About 6 months ago my mom got a call from me, saying I had been in a really bad accident in Ohio and I needed her to send me money ASAP... Only I live nowhere near Ohio. When she questioned that, they hung up. She said it sounded EXACTLY like me. If whatever scammer had known where I lived, or had randomly guessed a place that made more sense for me to have been, she would've been a victim.
MapleSyrupMafia
There's a couple of old people around here that were wise enough to get that it was a scam attempt. They called the cops, went thru the bs they were asking for without actually putting money in the envelope and then followed the courier... With more people like this, we could eventually get the assholes at the top if you make the assholes at the bottom squeal.
Mithi
Make it SOP: a) ALWAYS call back, the number in your contacts. ESPECIALLY if the "I have a new phone" pretext is used b) ALWAYS call another family member to run the story by them.
TwoNineSix
Odd that someone found samples to recreate your voice plus you and your mom's number but couldn't figure out your approximate location.
BennyBean1
Well, they didn't call from my number, but other than that, I agree, for sure. The only thing I can think of, I don't use social media, but my mom does, and tags me here and there. She doesn't have any audio or video of me, though, so no clue where my voice came from
KyleButNotThatKyle
Decide on a "password" or phrase that only you and your loved ones know.
nemesisx00
Free healthcare would be a good place to start. Then the phrase "I need money for a medical emergency" would be so ridiculous that it would be obvious that it was a scam.
stoots24
Lol you think seniors in the future will have money. That's cute.
fadingtheory
"Grandma, I need money for a life saving surgery, but the doctors only accept Amazon gift cards!"
Eramik
You joke now, but this is probably the future of healthcare in the US...
MapleSyrupMafia
"WHY DID YOU REDEEM IT!!!!"
ButtTrumpett
MAM JUST DO ME ONE THING.
kojenk
"Alright grandson, i'm filling in the codes right now into my account for you"
davegur
My wife walked in on my step mother having that conversation over the phone with her ‘grandson’. She was just about ready to send thousands of dollars in any way she could. It wasn’t even a life or death situation that they were telling her.
astrangehop
Not an impossible future
meltedfaceguy
Grandma already used a bunch of gift cards to pay some “back taxes” that the IRS forgot about.
IndigoThursday
There are so many elderly people who are alone at home with their technology and their undiagnosed Alzheimer's
pullingsixty
My partner's grandmother has diagnosed Alzheimer's and still lived on her own. She would sit out on her front porch and drink a whole bottle of vodka's worth of screwdrivers. She'd forget that she just had a drink and then get another and another until the bottle was gone.
gypsyspot
yeah. my aunt. who has undiagnosed dementia, was driven to the bank by her tenants and sold her house for one dollar. The courts held it up, since she signed and was undiagnosed at the time. Despite clearly being not in control of her faculties.
StrictlyBull
Don’t worry these dumbasses always ask for bitcoin. No one in my family gullible enough for scams is THAT gullible to believe bitcoin is actual money.
vlej
nobody worth a dime in the bitcoin space is either. We just know you can make money from things that aren't money but are given value.
VodkaReindeer
You're confusing ransomware with the kind of scam talked about in the OP. Here's more info on the OP: https://www.fcc.gov/grandparent-scams-get-more-sophisticated. They don't ask for crypto.
Idonotbelievewehavecompany
Nothing has been done that I am aware of and this is from 2019
Bunnies007
See my comment elsewhere on this board.
AndyTexas
We’re so screwed
CaptainPawfulFox
It's called "talk to your parents/grandparents about it"
JRobinsnest
(We should do the right thing no matter what, also there's a lesson here) As a voting block senior citizens were cool with everything that has happened so I'm gonna start my efforts on protecting the children being gunned down in schools. Senior citizens didn't create a safe society and now there are consequences. We should probably learn a lesson from that. Caring about other people is the only way to get people to care about you. Children first. They didn't get 65 years. and many won't
rile
Except education . Educate Family. She should not transfer money without talking to you… Ever.
Leithoa
For now you still need hours of footage or 10-15min of very specific scripted, well lit, low movement, clean background footage. Unless you are a streamer or public figure this isn't a threat. Yet.
maddcovv
Did we try telling scammers to not scam?
drinkthederpentine
Go ahead and suggest a real solution then
5m4llP0X
Yeah, we already have the voice version who will go along with a kidnapping and ransom scam.
CityYeti
Exactly. This isn't a regular phishing. People call several old people at a time to see who falls for it. Spear phishing, on the other hand, is more likely to happen.
armagetz
And even without the deep fakes, their spear fishing is getting quite good. Texts claiming to be the owner of the company I work at, even though we aren’t directly digitally connected in any way. Calls modified to appear local.
Lynkfox
Former co-worker got a text that looked legitimately like our vp asking for him to pick-up gift cards for an event. We're in tech, we've been in tech for years. He well knows the scams and such... and still almost fell for it. Even wfh and only had contact with this vp once.
It's insane how convincing they can be.
This is why I never look at my work email and never give my personal number to work 🙃
CoinedWatcher
I once got a call from my own cellphone number
flyingmonkeystick
That was you from the future.
dirtmarker
There is no money in it for the politicians is why.
AnnieMoosie
“There’s no money in it for the politicians to stop deep fake scams is why” - they probably could; but why should they if big businesses aren’t alarmed by the idea?
Idonotbelievewehavecompany
Sure there is, they make the laws and policies that keep fines low, then those corporations and CEO's tht benefit from the low fines, fill up the war chests of the politicians who keep getting elected because they can spend a shit ton of money on ads
CookieMonstersCrumbs
I wouldn't be surprised if the grifting assholes in politics are also the ones benefiting off scams like this. It's right up their alley. So there's no point in them protecting the old people who are voting for them. It's all part of the trickling economics for them.
Idonotbelievewehavecompany
Of course they are it's how they get massive donations for re-election campaigns plus the perks on the side they get
armagetz
Also…..there being literally nothing they can do. It’s already illegal. But American laws don’t have much weight in India and Nigeria.
itsallaboutthecones
There is something that is under development that can analyze the image and determine if it's been altered or not. I guess it would need to run as an overlay and analyze everything on your screen.
vlej
that won't really solve much, as fakes will simply become indistinguishable and the tool's false positives and false negatives will erode any usefulness of such a system. (not to mention fakes will soon enough be replaced with 100% generated media)
itsallaboutthecones
It's definitely an arms race but what's the alternative, try nothing?
vlej
no, as I said elsewhere they have to be assumed to exist, and they need to be factored in our social processes
itsallaboutthecones
Okay, since that's going so well already. People are gullible and lack basic critical thinking skills. Any effort made to protect them from themselves is a good effort in my book.
SimiKusoni
The problem with tools like this is that you can use them for training to improve your models, this is known as a generative adversarial network. If you can build a discriminator that can identify synthetic input then you can invariably train a generator to defeat it.
itsallaboutthecones
It's definitely an arms race but what's the alternative, try nothing?
SimiKusoni
I was just highlighting that the approach mentioned doesn't work. That there isn't an alternative isn't a good argument to advocate for software that will inevitably have high false positive and false negative rates, especially given that it will make the situation worse if people are advised to use it by some trusted authority.
interesseret
Realistically, what exactly CAN you do? Other than telling your susceptible family members to never send anything to anyone that can't prove their identity
Moose79
Simple solution. Don't post pictures of your face.
Mugendramon
"What's wrong with Wolfie?"
SkamanSam
I only use the telephone app on my phone for family interactions of any import. They can see my number. Whatsapp is my always-on chat with a few family members, but I dont do important family stuff there.
ishouldprobablybeplayingpokemonATM
internet competency exams to get access to internet
labrat0314
I've seen people start establishing use of a key word that no one outside the relationship knows. Basically passwords for conversations to let them know it's really you. I haven't gone this far for my folks, but it's a relatively simple fix.
certifiedllama
Pineapple juice!
littleslo
lukelorian
My parents and Inlaws have been told to use the most secure method. Writing the check in person. In person deep fakes are at least a decade away
Exyr
Yeah this about it. Just drill it into them. If anyone calls you asking for money as soon as your done talking to them call them back from the number on your phone and talk to them again.
OutlawGerman
"You must be a scammer. Everyone knows I'm fucking broke."
Exyr
Thats what I told my mom. Ain't no one calling her asking for money. She usually calls us.
BoominGranny
Grandma weighing in here: yes, this. My family has conversations about this regularly, have code words, etc.
StarscreamAndHutch
Code words. Great idea!
vlej
The problem is everyone is focusing on putting limits on AI in some way, and that's a completely stupid approach. Deepfakes will be just another tool. (the very scam mentioned in the message has existed since before the telegram. no, not the software).
What needs to happen is education, and tools for proof positive decentralized and un-intermediated proof of identity.
Deepfakes are here to stay, ESPECIALLY in the hands of people who have no interest in following the law whatsoever.
Leithoa
"Sorry son, until you send your public encryption key I won't pay your bail". I don't think that's reasonable either. You can't get grandma to use Signal let alone gpg.
vlej
that's exactly the crux of my point. the solutions need to be at the level of signatures (which funnily enough started out being a rather complex and little understood system at first too). The tools need to be avialable and ubiquitious, both technically and culturally
notacobra
Holy crap. Is that..a .... Voice of reason... In a conversation about new technology?
I haven't seen one of those in so long, I thought they'd gone extinct.
LjubljanaJeNajlepseMestoNaSvetu
What also needs to happen is strict regulation and enforcement of that.
Somanyquestions
Exactly. "Please stop using new technology" has one worked ONCE in the history of mankind, and it was for the A-Bomb. Technology that has TONS of practical applications will not be going away no matter how much people want it to.
Fairemont
Doesn't mean it shouldn't be regulated.
vlej
even the A-Bomb didn't really stop being used, it was just used differently
echonite
But its not being used as a regular weapon of war. Which is the important part.
drinkthederpentine
This
jimicus
If education worked, phishing would never have been a thing because everyone would have stopped trusting what they were sent with the ILOVEYOU virus.
vlej
Good example. It has worked. Phishing's success rate has dropped massively (comparatively speaking of course). Not to mention there have been numerous observations where effective, repeated (refreshes every so often) education does indeed transform the susceptibility to phishing quite dramatically. (this has been seen over and over through pentesting in companies etc).
Education works. It just doesn't eliminate the problem completely, kind of like vaccines.
MapleSyrupMafia
What needs to be done with older people is indeed education and people in nursing homes to give a fuck... Newer generations are more tech savy, so scams will only get harder to achieve... Most people who fall for it right now are old, outside of the love scams here and there that usually targets younger more emotionally vulnerable people. If I get a call saying that a family member is in jail and needs money, I'll go Liam Neeson on the phone until they hang up.
Zaranthan
Are you seriously suggesting that teaching people things doesn't work? I suppose you learned not to play in traffic the hard way?
vlej
that problem does generally take care of itself though
Idontneedrealfacts
Need to have a passcode
afambelafonte
We pretty much already have the tools on-hand for proof positive identity verification it just doesn't integrate with anything we do online. Public/private key encryption is not 100% (nothing is) but is damn close and has existed for many years and is perfectly decentralized. Can you and grandma exchange keys on Facebook? Zoom? The phone? Email? Anything? We need an enforced standard to make that happen and a government educated enough to even begin legislation on it.
vlej
but that is exactly what I mean. technology isn't really an issue, we have more than enough already, and what is missing can be developed.
what we don't have are tools (outside the realm of specialized skill). It needs to be some like a signature (not in terms of security, in terms of ubiquity)
leodavinci1
There is a problem that isn't just going to "going away". Those in governments around the world want "back doors" for law and order purposes. They've been insisting and trying to legislate them for years. Despite many so-called privacy laws, they hate encryption... or non-State controlled encryption... for everyday citizens. They just don't understand or refuse to accept that any system that has a "back door" is inherently insecure.
afambelafonte
For an identity service? The government already owns that since they issue birth certificates and IDs and passports. They take the fingerprints and store them in their databases. The government should definitely own the system. I'm not talking about encryption I'm talking about using public private key pairs solely for eponymous identification. We could have online voting, shit we could have defense from internet scamming in general.
Pphunk77
Teach them D.A.R.E.(don't answer ringing everytime) and for them to just say no.
rusrsdude
In the case of millenials, DARE stands for: don't answer ringing ever. 🤣
spookyactionatadistance
Sure but that sounds awfully like a Web3 talking point and as someone who is in the industry fuck that
vlej
Well, it's one of the few good talking points around Web3 xD
Though in this case I'm not referring necessarily to blockchain or any tech in particular. When I talk about un-intermediated and centralized I mean something like a signature, something that can be used without the need of a superstructure beyond fairly simple knowledge (but which can scale in terms of security and complexity as needed).
indeed, blockchain here wouldn't solve most of the issues we are looking at.
spookyactionatadistance
I'm like you on that. The underlying tech of blockchain is fine, it's how it was co-opted that bothers me. Same with a lot of Web3 concepts that are "sold" as getting power out of the hands of institutions like governments, central banks, and powerful corporations to give it to people when really it's a regulatory capture attempt by tech companies.
vlej
I see where you're coming from. it's a complicated matter of course--and a fascinating one to boot. In the DPoS space there are some virtuous examples of actual decentralization through DAOs and the DEX space run on systems managed by governance, but there is still far too much control in the hands of a fairly limited power cabal.
rumandbass
I'll go a step further and propose education, healthcare and safety nets for all peoples so crime isn't the only path forward for so many.
vlej
that should really happen regardless of tech progress lol
rumandbass
Indeed, but it will never happen unless the right people are in charge and power never attracts the right sort of people.
vlej
we had an amazing journalist in italy who died a couple of years ago, he was a paragon of scintific infotainment/documentary for the country. He had a very good worldview and ideas, many published in books and talks. could have been a heck of a decision maker.
whenever they asked him if he ever intended to try politics he'd basically answer "like fuck I would. hell no not even going near that shit"(*in a much more cultured manner)
rumandbass
Jon Stewart is our version in the US. He also wants nothing to do with politics despite being very successful politically.
pullingsixty
A noble thought but how are you going to make that happen in places like Russia, China, North Korea, Nigeria, and so on?
rumandbass
I can't say what I would do to the leadership structure of those countries without getting banned. But you can imagine. Regime change would only work with the right replacement however, which is likely impossible in those places.
pullingsixty
Might be that in this case the best offence is a good defence. The tech was built to scam them, shouldn't be impossible to build the tech to protect them and everyone else.