atxfilmguru
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I can attest this is a scam. Study after study shows kids who spend 3 years or more in child welfare have far worse outcomes in early adulthood. There are long term studies on going for middle/late adulthood.
ahorseelbowdeepinme
Also, just to point out the flaw here, I could easily say "children who go through chemotherapy have shorter lifespans on average than kids who never get chemo". This doesn't necessarily mean the kids in the second group actually needed chemo just like your study doesn't say if the kids in the second group needed services either
mannabananarama
This is an understandable but oversimplified view. Having been involved in CASA, Court Appointed Special Advocates, I know of countess cases where the parent(s) were a path to addiction, abuse and a shorter lifespan. One of my best friends has saved two children from certain death by Foster and then adoption.
Taxian
This is misinformation. Having worked providing counseling to at-risk teens for years, and having made innumerable calls to CPS, they are VERY reluctant to remove a child from a home period, and lack of resources is basically never the reason unless there is also something else going on.
linweelle
No, it's because they only want to take kids who are easy to control.
ahorseelbowdeepinme
When my boys were taken from their bio parents all they had to do to get them back was sign up for anger management classes. Not complete, not attend, just sign up for. Couldn't be bothered after the better part of two years. Some time after we adopted them they started doing things like joining public protests about the government stealing children from poor families and giving them to rich families. The foster system is full of stories like mine.
marionmoise
I don’t think children are removed solely for lack of resources, not in the 100s of cases I was in.
trinxter
It's sad about how many ways it can go wrong. More support for parents is obviously important, but also better CPS, courts, foster parenting.
marionmoise
You have a wonderful gift for simplification.
Plagen
This is fake news. Children aren't removed from their families just because they're poor. They're removed because of abuse, endangerment, or neglect. There are unfortunately plenty of people whose kids go to bed hungry, but their children aren't taken.
And you can "attest this is a scam"? Were you a foster kid, or did you just read a study? And the study makes sense anyway. If the kids were removed from parental custody, they weren't being treated right. They probably have trauma from that.
LilyCuster
So much more confused. I’m preparing to retire in 6 months and seriously was considering fostering these children in need.
CosmicCat8
...correlation/causation mate
catrov
You know these studies will be used by the R's to justify not spending at all on children, right?
req4adream99
Like Rs need actual studies to justify anything. They are just fine making up reasons to do what they want, and their base is just fine accepting those reasons. Hell the base is fine just accepting R politicians doing what they want because that’s what they want to do.
jfd8u438fdsfkds
Isn't the "family of origin" far worse, which is why … they were removed from it?
linweelle
I was taken from my abusive family, and sent to live with a family that had a houseful of illegal gun carried by teenagers. Foster homes are such a scam.
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linweelle
That's the thing, I was never kept from the abuse too long. They always made me go back. And yes, between strange teenagers with guns or my crazy drunk parents, I'll take the drunks.
DragonBjorne
“Studies show convicted murderers have a history of dreaming.”
DragonBjorne
https://youtu.be/bVuTufXPxZY
dollielacruz98
everyone in the comments saying it's not true: my sister and i were removed from our parents' care several times all because our house. was /messy/. no attempts to find support were made. we were just taken.
DontNeedAWeatherManToKnowWhichWayTheWindBlows
"Study after study shows kids who spend 3 years or more in child welfare have far worse outcomes in early adulthood" - compared to what? Kid's in non-broken homes with a stable family situation?
MithridateEupator
Not only that, they underperformed by 13 wellness units. 13!
atxfilmguru
Compared to all kids who were not in the child welfare system. The first breakthrough study was called "The Midwest Study." Several since then have refined and corroborated the Midwest Study results.
Dagordae
So yes, kids not in an unstable or broken home. Shockingly, comparing the outliers to the average results in the outliers remaining outliers. Any meaningful comparison NEEDS to compare like to like. The kids removed from terrible homes vs the kids who stayed. Good luck with the ethics of THAT study.
MeowWoof
Correlation does not equal causation. You need an apples to apples comparison between kids who were in the same sort of situation and compare the success rates of those sent into the foster system and those who were left.
Skuggen
Isn't that like saying that studies show that people who have brain surgery tend to have worse health than those that don't, so we shouldn't give anyone brain surgery?
DontNeedAWeatherManToKnowWhichWayTheWindBlows
Yeah, that was my point - noone enters the child-welfare system voluntarily unless the situation they are leaving is even worse.
1992sSisterActStarringWhoopiGoldberg
Well it makes sense if the family of origin is using their resources for drugs and tattoos instead of taking care of the kid.
ChefSpecialSauce101
Others take care of their kids with what? Whole foods and balanced nutrition? Stimulation and nurturing? YouTube/PS5/Netflix all day? Frozen Corn dogs/burritos and pizza rolls? Is the definition 3 hots and a cot?
CoachMcgurl
Probably use the same needles for both. That's smart financing there.
IhaveAdogAndAnxiety
Money for booze and cigarettes and somehow 3 cats but not the kid.
Hulser
I never really thought of it that way, but it’s so heartbreakingly obvious in hindsight. Is there even any logical rationale for this that is not based in intentional cruelty?
Plagen
OP is spreading misinformation. Kids don't get taken away just because the family is poor. They get taken away due to abuse, neglect, or endangerment.
ahorseelbowdeepinme
This does not reflect my experiences or that of anyone I know with experience with the foster system. IIRC all but two states are "family first" states meaning everyone involved is working to put the kids back in their bio home. In my case all the parents had to do to get their kids back was sign up for anger management classes
InfocalypseRising
Abusive/neglectful birth parents. Which honestly strikes me as probably the majority of foster kid situations, I doubt many kids are being taken from their families just because they're poor
Hulser
I’m not familiar with this topic, so this is an honest question: aren’t some children removed from their homes because of unsafe conditions? As in, I’ve read stories where the state took a kid away because they didn’t have their own bed. Misconception? Or maybe relevant in some countries but not others?
Taxian
They are only rarely removed due to unsafe conditions. The unsafe conditions have to be a direct byproduct of actively poor choices by the parent (e.g leaving a 3 year old unsupervised while also using an open over door to heat the apartment) before it falls under "neglect" as a category of abuse which gives CPS the green light to take action. I can't say it has never happened, but in over 10 years of making calls to CPS i've never seen a child taken for "they don't have a bed."
Hulser
Thank you for the info.
battleofhastings1066
I was a foster parent for 3 years in one of the poorest states in the country. The states do not remove children from homes for being poor. States don't even remove children from homeless parents, unless there is deemed another circumstance that requires it.
ahorseelbowdeepinme
It's amazing how this made it to fp when all the top comments are pointing out that it's factually incorrect
Brhino
I know two sets of foster parents. One set of bio parents was in and out of prison for stabbing people, including each other. The other bio mom had 7 kids by 7 men and tested positive for hard drugs on every single test she ever took. Both of those bio homes inflected massive trauma on the kids for the foster parents to try and work through.
JProudmoore
Yep this is some big misinformation being posted. However, one can agree that socioeconomic status does has a large parallel towards children entering the foster care system
RollToSaveAgainst
They can't use poverty as the excuse, no. But they do use poverty to accuse neglect in order to take the child, even if poverty is the only grounds for the accusation. There's even an article about how not every child living in poverty is being neglected, because it's a situation that keeps occurring.
https://cbexpress.acf.hhs.gov/article/2020/december-january/its-time-to-stop-confusing-poverty-with-neglect/953840031b92c150517620efe54bcbd9
ahorseelbowdeepinme
This link comes back with an error
RollToSaveAgainst
I've tried it with multiple browsers, it works every time. What error are you getting?
ahorseelbowdeepinme
RollToSaveAgainst
CloudFront is an Amazon distribution platform.
cbexpress.acf.hhs.gov is the official site for the Administration for Children & Families (ACF), a division of the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services (HHS).
If you're still having trouble, it looks like either Amazon or the US government is blocking you for some odd reason