Incorrect 1.)the solar system does not exist on a flat plane perpendicular to the movement of the sun 2.)the orbits of most of the planets pas in front of the movement of the sun 3.)the orbits of all the planets circumnavigate the barycenter between Jupiter and the sun 4.)the orbits of all the planets circumnavigate their own barycenters between themselves and jupiter
The reason time-travel is likely impossible is because it requires warping of space/time in such ways that are physically impossible, too unstable for anything to traverse it, or both Hypothetical time travel cant really involve 'setting coordinates' as in real world physics there is no special frame of reference, coordinates and your frame of reference are _fundamentally_ arbitrary I.e. It is, within our current physics framework, incoherent to try select a place in space/time to just 'jump' to
Time travel is totally possible if you have a really good map. That’s what your brains are for, incidentally, that’s kind of what all the brains are for, really….
Time and Time Again by Ben Elton makes good use of this exact phenomenon. Multple people had time travelled from a disastrous future back to 1914 Istanbul to reverse centain events and 'fix' the future, but each had arrived at a slightly different location. This meant that their actions affected history but didn't quite achieve what they were trying to do. Eventually they work it out and can use the lessons learned from previous attempts.
What is this temporal coordinate system relative to? There’s no such thing as a fixed point in the universe, everything is moving, any object chosen as a reference is just as valid as any other
My assumption is that the only place you could possibly anchor the calculations on would be on yourself. You'd have to set coordinates as an additive set to "current coordinates" and it'd essentially be impossible without powerful computation and very correct data
"Temporal" is related to "time," but you've basically nailed the main issue; there is no objectively valid point of reference because everything is constantly moving through a vast field of nothing. Unless you managed to somehow tie time travel to an exact point on the planet instead of that exact point in the cosmos (which means your reference point is moving through space with the planet itself), even going back a few seconds would land you in an empty pocket of space.
What about a point in a specific gravity well? Gravimetric signatures could be like fingerprints or snowflakes in the universe where no two form alike and are identifiable as such. They change over time but the future has a record of this. You can safely travel to the past, but no destination data exists for the distant future.
Also, it's proven that we can warp space. If we could warp time, my theory is that an exact destination could be selected.
I've always interpreted time machines in the hg wells way, where the machine moves you literally through time rather than teleporting you. And as such, you and the machine remain wherever you would otherwise be on the planet, you just experience the years as minutes.
it is dangerous if you fall a sleep and suddenly you are at the edge of the tectonic plate, plunging into the earths mantle under the neighboring tectonic plate, and if you stop there, you die instantly in hot lava.
The reference point for space is the point of origin of the Big Bang. It's how we know that everything in space is moving & the Earth isn't the center of the universe.
What are you talking about? We all travel in time. It's a one way trip with very close to constant speed. Astronauts are ones who deviate from the travelling speed of others most, when they are in space. The problem with time travel is deviating significantly from our current traveling speed, not to mention going into opposite direction.
I didn't say it was, because that is "deviating significantly from our current time travelling speed". Turning back means our time travelling speed has to change backwards more than it currently is forward, ending up being negative speed. I don't think it can work and even reaching zero time travelling speed in this sense would be as difficult as reaching light speed as we know it. So little we can change our time travelling speed, never reaching zero or negative (travelling back in time).
tbh the video only differs by adding 60mil year bobbing up and down, and a Burnout style skidding drift parallel to planet orbital plane half the time.
Isn't the sun orbiting the centre of the galaxy? So this illustration only shows a tiny portion of that orbit - like how flat-earthers only see a tiny portion of the curve of the plant and misinterpret it as a straight line?
There certainly is a galactic rotation and wobbling at play which would be beyond the scope of this animation. I was referring to our solar system, where the mass of Jupiter is sufficient to move the sun's center of gravity away from it's geometric center, where this animation has it.
It wobbles due to the gravitational effects of the planets in its grasp. Like the Earth-Moon system wobbles because our center of gravity is shifted towards to the moon.
I hate whoever originated this concept and put it in a gif. Every time I see it it makes me irrationally mad, this is not what it’s like and this is not how it works.
Imagine how a frisbee flies. Picture it flying with one side slightly higher than the other. That’s the solar system moving through space. Relatively speaking it is moving forwards a lot faster than the planets are orbiting the sun.
Gallilean relativity from the freaking 17th century already says this is not how movement works. There just isn't a sensible notion of a "trail" of where an object has been. The way we have understood physics since before Newton was born just doesn't allow such a thing to exist.
The problem is that this makes it look like sun has forward acceleration and the planets are in its drag. The disk shape you're used to is more accurate, it just doesn't highlight the Suns movement, but space is so freaking huge that for practical reasons it's a non factor.
I am confused. The animation looks like the sun is moving at a constant speed, not accelerating. I guess I am also wondering about what is "forward", in space.
MillenniumFalcon
this is gross misinformation
drhobotron
Jesus Christ. This pops up every few months, and we have to load up the hundreds of links that debunk it.
license2kilt
*not to scale
duktayp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_Song
Iaimtomisbehave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfcC6FYyL4U
MisterBrahanovich
Psycostick does a version of this. https://youtu.be/SemE1JJ36D8?si=Ah5jPdzM4cMfZ63G
Barasu
Pluto is a planet!
tidepool
Justice for Pluto! Kick NdTyson out of the astronomer club for his crimes!
pomax
nah mate, -1 for not giving two buddies the time they deserve at the end. Super rude.
MaleProstateMilker88
Why do we live in an empty vacuum full of dead rocks and gas. Why is the universe so weird and nonsensical.
BoNolHetAhrkDir
There exists one quote that makes you better at physics the instant you learn to parrot it, namely "relative to what?"
slackboy722000
Definitely not to scale
innagaddavidababy
It can be a lot simpler if you choose a better frame of reference.
conklin5
Ha! Not only is the Earth flat, the whole dang solar system is flat!
BananaForScaIe
AND WHO'S HOLDING THE CAMERA?!
IntelligentLake
You didn't accidentally watch it on your old 2d monitor instead of your 3d holovision, right? cause everything appeared 2d on those.
BrigidtheMechLady
This is inaccurate. The plane of the solar system orbit is roughly parallel with the galactic plane.
choink
Relative to what?
ChickenChickenBurningBright
not quite. the sun moves faster along its path than the planets move around it. the helical motion of the planets needs to be stretched waaaaaay out.
torillatavataan
Also, the angle is off.
ChickenChickenBurningBright
yeah, I believe it's about a 60 deg angle to the Sun's ecliptic plane.
Rendova
No wonder the head spins----
zubb999
This is fake. Clearly
fformulaa
The sun's all like y'all just dance around me while i head out straight! Lol
WhatUpDog3000
Like a mob boss and his lackeys.
quade
The sun is actually wobbling too as a result of everything else in the system.
cdlong
That's mostly how we find exo-planets, and I think even Neptune in our own system.
Huntergirl727
"straight"
mypepperonihasafirstname
Crazy to think how there are other stars that are way the fuck bigger than ours.
SaladinIskander
weeeeeeeeeeeeeee
badgesweedontneednostinkingbadges
I was reading Jules Verne's "Around The Moon" and thought about this clip.
JustAnotherRabidToaster
The Moon goes 'round the Earth
As the Earth goes 'round the Sun
We do not die from Death
We die from vertigo
(/obscure?)
SimonHK
Relative to what?
ki4clz
Incorrect
1.)the solar system does not exist on a flat plane perpendicular to the movement of the sun
2.)the orbits of most of the planets pas in front of the movement of the sun
3.)the orbits of all the planets circumnavigate the barycenter between Jupiter and the sun
4.)the orbits of all the planets circumnavigate their own barycenters between themselves and jupiter
wheelersdealer
Come on Andromeda... Keep getting closer and stop this nonsense
captapathy
No no no. I prefer to travel along the plane, not perpendicular. If everone could leaaaan to the left…
Giraffehalf
I’ve always wondered if anybody has ever brought this up when fighting a speeding ticket.
bill4935
I really felt like I'd been spiralling lately. Glad to find out this is due to celestial mechanics and not my lousy job and nagging wife.
Kjasi
And that motion is why time-travel is so hard; people to forget to take the motion of the planets into account when setting temporal coordinates.
TheUrbanShaman
Primer. Great movie.
Ricobe9
That's why you need a TARDIS. It knows
tinybartender
Time And Relative Dimension In Space fixes all the problems.
bobimg
The reason time-travel is likely impossible is because it requires warping of space/time in such ways that are physically impossible, too unstable for anything to traverse it, or both
Hypothetical time travel cant really involve 'setting coordinates' as in real world physics there is no special frame of reference, coordinates and your frame of reference are _fundamentally_ arbitrary I.e. It is, within our current physics framework, incoherent to try select a place in space/time to just 'jump' to
KarlRoyGabriel
Time travel is totally possible if you have a really good map. That’s what your brains are for, incidentally, that’s kind of what all the brains are for, really….
thrashingcows
Hengabecka
Time and Time Again by Ben Elton makes good use of this exact phenomenon. Multple people had time travelled from a disastrous future back to 1914 Istanbul to reverse centain events and 'fix' the future, but each had arrived at a slightly different location. This meant that their actions affected history but didn't quite achieve what they were trying to do. Eventually they work it out and can use the lessons learned from previous attempts.
Weblord
Clever writer. Loved Blackadder.
Naresch
And as we know even the 3 body problem is difficult …. XD
Grimmrog
yep imagine the speed we go through in space, just a one second time travael may mean hundreds or thousends of km away
Sickbart
That's why the solar system leaves a trail of dead time travelers...
license2kilt
The earth is moving, the sun is moving, the galaxy is moving…
pgaulrapp
Yes, that's the reason why time travel is so hard.
DarkSock
Time travel is a piece of cake; we're doing it right now. Involuntarily.
Gegenschein
What is this temporal coordinate system relative to? There’s no such thing as a fixed point in the universe, everything is moving, any object chosen as a reference is just as valid as any other
FoxyEllie
My assumption is that the only place you could possibly anchor the calculations on would be on yourself. You'd have to set coordinates as an additive set to "current coordinates" and it'd essentially be impossible without powerful computation and very correct data
thomascalhoun14092
"Temporal" is related to "time," but you've basically nailed the main issue; there is no objectively valid point of reference because everything is constantly moving through a vast field of nothing. Unless you managed to somehow tie time travel to an exact point on the planet instead of that exact point in the cosmos (which means your reference point is moving through space with the planet itself), even going back a few seconds would land you in an empty pocket of space.
MisterLemons
What about a point in a specific gravity well? Gravimetric signatures could be like fingerprints or snowflakes in the universe where no two form alike and are identifiable as such. They change over time but the future has a record of this. You can safely travel to the past, but no destination data exists for the distant future.
Also, it's proven that we can warp space. If we could warp time, my theory is that an exact destination could be selected.
Yeah, I'm a nerd, whuddayagonnadoboutit!?
rabidworm
I've always interpreted time machines in the hg wells way, where the machine moves you literally through time rather than teleporting you. And as such, you and the machine remain wherever you would otherwise be on the planet, you just experience the years as minutes.
SergeyPrkl
it is dangerous if you fall a sleep and suddenly you are at the edge of the tectonic plate, plunging into the earths mantle under the neighboring tectonic plate, and if you stop there, you die instantly in hot lava.
WellActuallyThisIsNotAFunnyUsername
"That exact point in the cosmos" doesn't exist unless you tie it to an actual object in the cosmos. Space itself is not a reference point.
thomascalhoun14092
The reference point for space is the point of origin of the Big Bang. It's how we know that everything in space is moving & the Earth isn't the center of the universe.
knotch2
No one said time travel was easy.
zerogenix
time travel is just purely impossible, times not a road
rawdatasystems
What are you talking about? We all travel in time. It's a one way trip with very close to constant speed. Astronauts are ones who deviate from the travelling speed of others most, when they are in space. The problem with time travel is deviating significantly from our current traveling speed, not to mention going into opposite direction.
zerogenix
gravity bends it but it not something you can just like turn around and walk back down the road to see ancient Mesopotamia or something
rawdatasystems
I didn't say it was, because that is "deviating significantly from our current time travelling speed". Turning back means our time travelling speed has to change backwards more than it currently is forward, ending up being negative speed. I don't think it can work and even reaching zero time travelling speed in this sense would be as difficult as reaching light speed as we know it. So little we can change our time travelling speed, never reaching zero or negative (travelling back in time).
ALittleOddish
I always assumed time was affected by gravity like matter so you’d effectively be attracted to that mass even in the temporal flow
TheRedBaron8
This is not how it works. https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.pbs.org/video/how-does-the-earth-really-move-through-the-galaxy-qnyvha/%23:~:text%3DThis%2520video%2520of%2520the%2520planets,move%2520in%2520a%2520cool%2520vortex.&ved=2ahUKEwikpIqTtpiMAxW4kokEHTzrHCIQ5YIJKAB6BAgiEAA&usg=AOvVaw2VmVUGsJdWTE99oxquM5sa
Higure
Holy URL-padding, Batman! Here it is without all the Google tracking info: https://www.pbs.org/video/how-does-the-earth-really-move-through-the-galaxy-qnyvha/
TheRedBaron8
My bad. I'll go and sit in the Imgur sub corner for an hour.
powerrangerpl
MVP
30CratesOfTictacs
tbh the video only differs by adding 60mil year bobbing up and down, and a Burnout style skidding drift parallel to planet orbital plane half the time.
TheRedBaron8
Yea! Science
CrankyCook
tidepool
What’s all that dust and why is the center purple part throbbing with light like a brain?
OurEndlessNumberedDays
hetnkik999
Fuckin' get me to the center of the drain already.
DragonBjorne
Which way is up??
Weblord
Yeah, nah... the sun doesn't move in a straight line at all.
reichtwinglunatic
zoom in enough and any curve looks like a straight line
Weblord
Excellent point
Hengabecka
Isn't the sun orbiting the centre of the galaxy? So this illustration only shows a tiny portion of that orbit - like how flat-earthers only see a tiny portion of the curve of the plant and misinterpret it as a straight line?
Weblord
There certainly is a galactic rotation and wobbling at play which would be beyond the scope of this animation. I was referring to our solar system, where the mass of Jupiter is sufficient to move the sun's center of gravity away from it's geometric center, where this animation has it.
JestasBueno
How does it move?
Weblord
It wobbles due to the gravitational effects of the planets in its grasp. Like the Earth-Moon system wobbles because our center of gravity is shifted towards to the moon.
thean
I hate whoever originated this concept and put it in a gif. Every time I see it it makes me irrationally mad, this is not what it’s like and this is not how it works.
Gah.
MaleProstateMilker88
I need a new gif that demonstrates it accurately then. I'm a visual learner.
thean
Imagine how a frisbee flies. Picture it flying with one side slightly higher than the other. That’s the solar system moving through space. Relatively speaking it is moving forwards a lot faster than the planets are orbiting the sun.
Higure
Gallilean relativity from the freaking 17th century already says this is not how movement works. There just isn't a sensible notion of a "trail" of where an object has been. The way we have understood physics since before Newton was born just doesn't allow such a thing to exist.
JestasBueno
So, how is it then?
RufusPimperton
The problem is that this makes it look like sun has forward acceleration and the planets are in its drag. The disk shape you're used to is more accurate, it just doesn't highlight the Suns movement, but space is so freaking huge that for practical reasons it's a non factor.
4254
I am confused. The animation looks like the sun is moving at a constant speed, not accelerating. I guess I am also wondering about what is "forward", in space.
cedrychskye
https://www.pbs.org/video/how-does-the-earth-really-move-through-the-galaxy-qnyvha/