DrKonrad
45329
705
44
"Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10." -- Jerry Nixon (2015)
https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows
Notice how he said "the last", not "the latest".
The end of support of Windows 10 is expected to turn around 240 millions of computers to waste.
https://www.canalys.com/insights/end-of-windows-10-support-could-turn-240-million-pcs-into-e-waste
BullittGT
Main issue I am seeing is the TPM, believe you can buy one for cheap and install.
timothyaolson2000
It will be a great time to pick up some great hardware for next to nothing. Fedora, here I come!
Alistairetheblu
What do you mean must buy a new PC? I'm running 11 on a PC where the last upgrade was a graphics card nearly 10 years ago.
evilspyre
some older CPU's don't have required instructions and or TPM (which can be bypassed) plus the AI bullshit needs a AI processor to work well
Alistairetheblu
Sure, that's still far from a must.
andrewcj8
Yes it's annoying (and I'm one of those people - still running Win10 on an HP N40 micro server I bought 12 years ago) but how many mobile phones become obsolete each year because the Apple / Android OS goes out of support?
aThingWithAKeyboard
Newsflash...you can easily bypass the TPM requirement, the online account requirement, the built in copilot, and recall. Stop being luddites and solve the issues yourself.
HeShallKnowYourWaysAsIfBornToThem
240 million computers now will be running Linux Mint.
OmgOptimized
The build numbers of Windows 11 all begin with the major version 10.x. But of course business or marketing must invent something new.
cousteau
At least we've had a brief period when they got the version numbers right. Windows 7 was 6.1…
Niagaran
Windows 11 was released on Oct 5, 2021. A little before 2025.
TayoStrum
I would like to remind everyone that windows versions remain largely functional and largely secure, esp if you don't keep anything you are concerned about securing on them, for years. And I would also like to remind every one that even if a feature is not native to an older version it generally can be installed, and a restore point can be made with all of those extra features for east reinstall.
dspillett
Suggesting a good response to “Linux is only free, if your time is worth nothing” is “Windows only costs the price of the licence, if your time is worth nothing”.
Commander5AM
Yeah a new computer is not in the cards for me, guess I'll have to live dangerously with 10.
bassaro
No, if you keep using it past the end of support they send Ballmer to your house to break your fingers.
Commander5AM
Well they can try but they gotta get past the guardians first.
Suomijuusto89
Linux is like kinky sex, one visit to a fetish party is not enough.
Theniyaal
Meanwhile, I'm still running Windows 7 on my 13 year old desktop.
br0da
So do I. I believe Windows 10 is a form of malware that monitors user activity, while Windows 11 is even more invasive, requiring greater access to PC memory.
ThatGuyWomack
If it has access to the Internet, your Win 7 pc is also probably compromised.
Vamp13
I don't think there's anything wrong with what he said. They clearly wanted to try something new. They did try it. It didn't work and they went back to something that does work, yes they were wrong, it happens a lot to all companies.
ChazzK
"End of support" is not the same thing as "remotely deactivating every computer with it installed." Windows 10 was already the standard when my old job's last computer running FREAKING DOS died.
pomdor
Windows 11 is a huge step back in usability from 8 or 10, AND has the most bugs I've seen in any OS. What is MS even doing?
Sascylle
Turning its users into advertising profiles is what they're doing.
KhajiitIsPleased
I updated to 11 because I was having audio driver issues and was at a loss for what else to do (I'm not tech savvy) gotta say while it did help fix the issue, the UI updates is positively fucking awful
Trelis
A company that changed their decision from 9 years ago? Colour me surprised, who ever would have thought that would happen?
cousteau
More like 5 - Windows 11 was announced about 5 years after they released 10.
SteerpikeSteerpike
Yea. Everyone should've known that was a complete BS statement.
Super dumb for him to even claim that, but we should be surprised.
Now what they're changing TO is whole other conversation.
Fishy820
Sebastopol140
You can quite easily install 11 on a PC that's supposedly "not ok for 11". But they won't tell you that.
n0n53n53
yes they will tell you that
pomdor
You can, but don't! Win 11 is worse than 10. Far fewer QoL features, and way more bugs.
NinjaStrikeForce
While true, and I have done this myself, there's no way of knowing if MS rolls out an update that essentially bricks those installs at some point. I seem to remember that there has been talk about this already.
Sebastopol140
They won't, they could have done this already for every Windows that got updates from internet.
NinjaStrikeForce
Just because they haven't done it so far, doesn't mean that it won't happen. So far there really hasn't been a reason because people would just jump back to 10, but once 10 is end of service, it would maybe make sense for MS to enforce the requirements for 11 with an update. And MS is not above making unpopular decisions.
TeslaCuil
It's also very possible it could happen by accident. They will not be developing updates with backwards compatibility in mind, after all.
NebulousToucan
I did that. 2 weeks later I had to reinstall 10 because it was blue screening 3-4 times a day.
I'm tempted to dual boot Linux and win 10 for when i absolutely need windows stuff
hellvis
Yeah, this. I have an old PC without a TPM and it said no, but I found out later you can just tell it 'install anyway'.
So I installed Linux.
Frndlylion
There are many good linux choices these days. Linux Mint is what I recommend. For a good website with tons of info on different versions of linux: www.distrowatch.org
TheRealDale
What he meant… was Windows 10 is the last version… that will run on your computer.
sadurdaynight
Windows 11. Because we learned absolutely fuck-all from Windows Vista roll-out.
modus0
Wouldn't surprise me if they extend support a few years until Win 11 does finally gain greater market share.
DrKonrad
You can extend support for Windows 10, for a fee https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/31/microsoft_windows_10_support/ There is no escaping the end of support
cbale2000
There's also at least one 3rd-party company that plans to offer extended support for Win10 for at least 5 years after Microsoft ends support for it.
Paradox1111
30$
qtRaven
.
Tortoiseshell11
I’ll stop using windows 10 when I’m no longer able to run programs I need on it, then I’ll see about Linux.
nik282000
Star the switch now! Throw Mint (or whatever you want) on an old laptop and try daily driving it for a week.
Tortoiseshell11
I’ve used Debian for some stuff already so I’ll probably go to that or something based on it.
DeltaBladeX
I picked up a low spec laptop for NZ$40 (under US$20) a while back just as a back up if I'm going somewhere (primary is a desktop), and since the thing couldn't run W11 and W10 was soon to be discontinued for updates, I gave Mint a try. I don't want to hate it, but trying to deal with a few games I want to install certainly didn't help. Went over my Humble library for a bunch of games and just couldn't get some to install from the download files. Shame it was a pain there.
NinjaStrikeForce
Installing Windows games directly on Linux will rarely work. What you can do is either run them through Steam, or use something like Bottles. There are tons of guides to make it work for Steam Deck (SteamOS), and those guides often work perfectly for other distros.
DeltaBladeX
Not the Windows versions, the Linux versions, wasn't going to try to figure out Wine on a low spec system, and Humble hosts both. Some files wouldn't download, instead open as a browser page (ended up using somehow still active torrents that Humble host for games), others were more problematic at the install stage. There was one particular title that pissed me off by asking for my update password on attempting to install, but wouldn't accept it no matter the number of attempts to get it done.
DeltaBladeX
dreikommavierzehn
That's misleading. Win11 was supposed to be the last version because of the shift to a subscription based model with feature updates every quarter. Due to massive backlash they abandoned the subscription model and went back to releasing new versions, with feature updates every 6-12months.
None of this is secret, everything was announced on official Microsoft channels
cbale2000
Ahh, yes, "feature updates". Stuff no one ever needed or asked for.
Unless we're talking core functionality (like supporting some new piece of hardware), I have never once cared what new "features" Microsoft pushes to people, and in most cases the first thing I do is disable them. Anymore it seems like most of what their "feature" updates do is remove old programs like Paint or Image Viewer that worked just fine as-is, and replace them with AI garbage no one wants or uses.
ballsoutflyer
I will never, ever use any OS -based subscription services. I will die on this hill, go offline, use a old console or use a thin linux machine instead.
SoraHjort
I will suffer my curse with WINE to avoid an OS that requires a subscription. (long story short, my curse with wine is that I can rarely get it to work, despite knowing many people have gotten it to work as well as using automated setups for it, regardless of linux distro. WINE just doesn't like me.)
MapleSyrupMafia
I won't say I've bought a $10 license key on Amazon like 8 years ago... but I've never paid for Windows and never will, that $10 is the most I've paid to install Windows on my PC. All my previous versions had an eye patch.
RawSuger
not sure whats misleading?
dreikommavierzehn
The implication that this happened on a whim when in fact it was due to consumer demand
RawSuger
there's no whim implied. also you think the consumer demanded for their hardware to become obsolete?
dreikommavierzehn
do you refer to the required cryptographic modules on modern hardware? Then kind of yes. Ofc we didn't want that crap, but we want Netflix, DisneyPlus and all that stuff. None of that is happening without that hardware
TripleDane
None of that needs the hardware and was functional well before the hardware. It's NOT a consumer demand.
nik282000
The modules are not only not necessary but can be emulated in software. It was a push to sell more crap to the normies.
funken77
I'm just pissed about what they did with the Taskbar.
pomdor
...and the start menu. Can't fullscreen anymore? Can't arrange the icons how I want anymore? Why all these steps back in usability? (Not to mention all the bugs...)
MoopsyLD
Well luckily the UI can be fixed via StartisBack or classic shell.
funken77
Thanks for the 3rd party references, I'll have to deploy a vm and see if they fit my needs
keebs63
Right click on the taskbar, click on taskbar settings, then taskbar behaviors and change alignment back to left. Tons of other settings in there to make it closer to/identical to older versions of Windows.
funken77
Ok, now tell me how to get multiple rows on my Taskbar and drag my Taskbar to a nonprimary monitor without a 3rd party.
custaJapeDog
Had the task bar aligned down right of screen since 2002 as multiple IE windows were in use and were easier to see when vertical [No tabs or nesting windows back then] Work Laptop was upgraded to Win 11. I'm having a minor breakdown over it.
funken77
Yup. I reverted to 10 until my org forced me to 11.
duktayp
YouMayFindThisMildlyInteresting
Joseph Heller fan on the dev team
cousteau
Oh, yeah, this is a pretty common issue. The reason you're getting this screen is because something happened.
MapleSyrupMafia
I've been getting random blue screens of death in the last couple months... and most of the time, the error isn't even the same one. I should format my pc and start fresh, but I'm kinda lazy... Think I'll wait to start working again and just upgrade my setup, then I won't have the choice to start new. I love doing literally nothing, not modifying anything and still get random bs like this.
heyimjephph
So download BlueScreenView from NirSoft or Debugging Tools for Windows from Microsoft and open the memory.dmp and see why your system is blue screening. Most of the time it's a driver, and if it's hardware related it's most likely RAM.
zitipup
do you have an i9 cpu? cuz i got bad news for ya if you do..
MapleSyrupMafia
I have a i7 8700K. My setup is starting to age a bit... What's the issue with i9?
zitipup
Ah ok. i9s are getting damaged by most motherboards default settings pumping too much core. Random BSOD increasing in frequency over time is one of indicators
d3lness
i9s are getting damaged because Intel released product they knew was defective into the wild for years and they've been playing the blame game from day zero.
IDontCareAtAllButIShould
Windows 11 was released in 2021. A good portion to most of the PCs at the time already didn't support it. Almost every PC sold since does support it. So what is this saying?
Thetas
My opinion but Windows 11 is garbage. I have two machines on each with one of them having upgraded to it, and the 11 machines run terribly. There's nothing to show for it, either. Meanwhile my gaming PC has an older CPU but I still run most games at 165 FPS without issue. My only reason to upgrade the CPU right now even though I don't have a budget for it is Windows 11, which I hate. I even tolerated Windows 8 and its start screen, but 11 sucks.I'll be Linux as soon as Anti-cheat supports it.
Thetas
To to mention to upgrade my CPU would require a new Motherboard and replace my currently-working ram sticks. I have a somewhat newer GPU so the games I run at 165 FPS are things like Cyberpunk with DLSS and AI Frame Gen.
unluckyandbored
It's saying that Microsoft is the 800-lb gorilla in the software market, and what they say goes.
mbus
The non-cynical response would be that PC manufacturing has been all over the map in terms of quality. Some PCs are high-end and others are piles of junk even with similar stats. M$ is making an attempt to standardize some aspects of the PC experience (in a way that Apple doesn't have to worry about) by forcing the hand of hardware manufacturers. That helps M$ down the road because more standardization = fewer edge cases = more stability in the OS.
cheeseguy3412
For a few of my friends, that lack of support is why they are keeping their old PCs alive for longer. They don't want win11 to be deployed automatically, or to be harassed to install the new version. Every reminder that the system is incompatible with win11 is reassurance.
M4UsedRollout
Windows 10 will run comfortably on most machines made in the past 15 years. So plenty of people are doing just that with no problems. They don’t want to have to buy a new computer.
Bojovnik84
This was a post made by Internet Explorer.
IDontCareAtAllButIShould
The point being is that the post makes it sound like 2025 is some big Windows 11 release announcement when by then it's 4 years old already.
ultradongle
They won't let you upgrade Windows 10 to 11 if it only has 8GB of RAM, but they are out here selling all in one PCs with 8GB of RAM that barely function with Windows 11 installed on it. It's like a repeat of the Windows Vista on underspecced Netbooks debacle.
BayazTheBenevolent
Short answer? Windows is trash - time to learn Linux.
n0n53n53
new technology is new and doesn't work with old technology. It really isn't that deep. You also can't run windows 10 on an old POS PC that was built for Windows XP. Mac OS 15.1 doesn't work on really old Macs.
stevencloser
Wow, that's totally a valid comparison between OS's that follow right after each other instead of comparing it to one that's 4 generations older.
TeslaCuil
My still very powerful and expensive desktop that's less than 3 years old doesn't support Windows 11.
keebs63
What are you talking about lmao. What part of it is not supported by Windows 11??
n0n53n53
weird ... mine that's older does. Maybe it's a you thing?
beoff
Ahem: https://www.xda-developers.com/install-windows-11-unsupported-pc/
Juni0220
My pc said it was ready for windows 11 a few years ago, now it says its incompatible
PoorSucker
Was that 2011?
Adester
That there are hundreds of millions of PCs that can't run Windows 11. If you want to navigate the interwebs somewhat securely, then these PCs can't switch to Win 11 once there are no security updates for Win 10 anymore. Almost all of the home computers you find in india, aftrica, some south america countries, etc will either have to switch to linux or they will go to waste or they will become russian/chinese DDoS bots. It will either be a ecological, a economical, or a security disaster.
ActuallyMadeOfCheese
The worst disaster would be to switch to Linux.
...I say this as a long time Linux user.
smashpro1
There are still security updates for Windows 10 until October 2025, and you can buy additional one beyond then..at a cost of $30 per year.
shorey66
I use an i7 3770 ddr3 based system. It still runs haha at high resolution and FPS so why but new? I would have switched to Linux long ago if it was better for gaming
smashpro1
Linux is fine for gaming unless you're playing multiplayer with anti-cheat, and even that is mostly due to devs just not wanting to support Linux.
shorey66
Which is what the vast majority of people do.
PileOfWalthers
Can't use my good ole 486 DX2 66 with 32 megs of RAM anymore either...
aiuta219
A college friend of mine still tests and offers compatibility fixes to allow contemporary Linux kernels on 486 hardware. He does this for fun, but at least a few embedded systems have sent him fairly substantial donations for doing so. He's still using the same 486/33 he had in college, albeit with a new hard drive and power supply.
gesel
That's epic.
Adester
Yes, that were different times. There is not even a comparison between a 486 and a Pentium 4 from 10 years later. It would be a comparison between a wet towel and a super sports car. However, a 15 to 20 year old PC with some RAM upgrades can easily be used today. Microsoft choose to force TPM, which is a way for them to check every program you want to run and then deny it if this program is not signed correctly. TPM is a nice to have, but not necessary. It's a artificial barrier.
montyman185
And apparently when there's a security vulnerability, it just ends up being the TPM, which defeats the whole point
jayhaJapeLord
I have a tpm on my laptop but my 7th gen i7 isn't compatible with windows 11. Slower newer cpus are, it's complete bullshit.
silvuha24
Actually it is possible to upgrade to win11 without tpm chip. The option is just well hidden.
VictusVonGuyver
Correct. It's a software lockout to force people to use a motherboard with a special chip to add better security. Features. But of course Microsoft also provided you with a bloated OS that tracks you too.
So I used a software UK to remove all the bloat, but some people took it further and removed the motherboard chip requirement too.
TimeFoDat
My Pc should but because I used a pre-existing windows install on a slightly older hard drive, it won’t let me update. Allegedly I can fix it but I have to mess with the MBR and I’m 90% sure I’ll fuck something up and wipe the drive so for now I’m just riding it out.
ItsAWonderfulButt
Ultimately I'd start with backing up personal files as anything can go wrong at any time. Then if you're sure it can run 11 just follow below instructions to convert to gpt in like two minutes, if memory recalls, can be done booted from the HDD, otherwise just create a Win 10/11 USB, change your bios settings to boot from UEFI and once the USB loads into the install wizard, press shift and F10 together and type out relevant commands https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/mbr-to-gpt
cousteau
That you need to buy a PC released after the launch of Windows 11 to run Windows 11?
ssakm
Technical answer? A lot of older PC hardware doesn't have or support some very specific hardware and software security features. Real answer? MS is putting the cart before the horse, and the money before the support. They could have pushed the features they need now to be standardized 10 years ago in the hardware industry, but they didn't, and the manufacturers also didn't care to make anything that was future-looking because that meant extra manufacturing expense and less profit.
VodkaReindeer
Weird how that integrated TPMs in CPUs despite all that not caring
ssakm
The same thing would have happened to Apple too if they didn't control both the hardware AND software sides of their business.
gesel
Apple "solves" the problem by soldering storage and memory and batteries to the mobo, making the entire system disposable, not upgradable. Absolutely abhorrent practice.
n0n53n53
the latest version of Mac OS isn't compatible with older Macs though, for the same reasons
EBrarian
To be fair, at the time there was a massive backlash regarding these 'security features' because people regarded it as spyware / hardware DRM.
onlyhalfghost
correctly regarded
TheDefective
Windows 11 Recall is an endless privacy hellscape. A nightmare realm from which there is no waking escape.
n0n53n53
How would anyone today know, or have the ability to make something that will be compatible with new technology in 10 years?
TravelingTableTop
This is routinely done and a key pillar of software design. 10 years ago was 2014. There had been 7 years of iphones by then. I would bet a good amount of money that the software controlling your local water treatment plant or power substation is at least 10 years old and humming along fine
DarkZalgo
The only routine part is that operating systems are designed with an end of life. Microsoft explicitly states their OS lifecycle as being 5 years of standard support plus 5 years of extended support.
ProfFurryPaws
I built a new gaming PC in 2020 with high end, current gen tech that had all released that calendar year. When Windows 11 released less that a year later it was not compatible. Screw Microsoft. I'm not building another new gaming rig just for their bottom line. When Windows 10 is end of life next year, I'm going pure Linux and not looking back.
Gobjin
I had something similar, except with some digging through the BIOS turned on a MB security setting that made it compatible
NinjaStrikeForce
Take my dad as an example. He had a desktop PC with an old Core i5, nothing fancy but it got the job done when it comes to the few things he uses it for. It's too old to upgrade to 11, but probably has 3-4 years of life in it still if the PSU holds up. Same story when it comes to his laptop, which probably will work longer since it's only in use a few times a month. I had an extra mini desktop that I could give him, and just move his SSD to it, and I think we'll try some very easy version >
NinjaStrikeForce
of Linux for his laptop. But if he didn't have me to help him, he would have dumped 2 fully functional computers, and bought something new. That's unnecessary e-waste.
ultradongle
I had an elderly client trash their PC that Microsoft claimed couldn't be upgraded to Windows 11 because it only had 8GB of RAM. Some got rid of it and bought a brand new all in one with Windows 11 that runs like shit because...it has only 8GB of RAM. Luckily I was able to upgrade it to 16GB, but they shouldn't even sell it with 8GB.
NinjaStrikeForce
Agreed. The one that I gave my dad has 16 gigs. And I might have found use for his old computer as the basis for a home lab server.
FoodTastesGood
Switch to Linux, folks.
br0da
I would happily do that. However, the software I use to earn my living has not been released for Linux.
FoodTastesGood
I'm in the same boat regarding photo-ending software, but I'm going to bite the bullet and migrate.
manulofdoom
I wish Valve would push even harder for linux gaming. That's literally the last thing which keeps me on windows.
DrKonrad
I have Steam and many games installed on Linux. Steam can even run Windows games now, thanks to Proton (a fork of Wine)
cousteau
You can install any Steam game on Linux, even Windows-only titles; it'll install the emulation layer and everything for you. It's not perfect but it works pretty decently.
FaecalJacksonPollock
You know what doesn't need a new PC? Linux.
TheRoyalDong
I'm considering it. Just confused how to install it. Seems like there are different ways.
Columbus43219
Can you boot from a thumb drive on your machine? Most of the ones I've installed for whatever reason have a good instruction set for creating a bootable thumb drive. Once you start it from there, you can install it.
aoshistark
Neither does pirated copies.
jinbee
Linux Mint - seriously it's what Windows would/should be in some beautiful alternative timeline where Harambe is still alive.
LegionExMachina
It's a bit limited for gaming unfortunately. Sometimes the audio sucks on a Linux machine too.
RaikuPsycho
Check the comments, this person is a racist idiot
RonMimnaugh
look at getting hardware that is better supported. It was time to get a new card so I bought my first non nvidia card in a decade. It has been smooth sailing.
ArchiMarK
And how is this different from upgrading hardware to adhere to windows 11 compatibility constraints?
RonMimnaugh
You will have an easier time finding supported hardware. It doesn't even need to be new. My system is 11 years old (minus the video card, power supply and hard drive) The card is all I replaced to be more compatible.
Rystefn
Yeah, it's pretty steadily improving on that front, but there's still quite a ways to go, depending on which games you like.
manymadmasks
You know what can't run half the programs I use? Linux. No, a virtual machine isn't a viable option.
bamboolemur
Do you use more than two programs? Are those two programs Edge and Chrome?
Sypurist
I mean, Firefox, but yes I see your point. Probably 99.9% of what I use day to day is done in a browser. (Which I have a tablet with a keyboard for.) I still think about installing Linux sometimes, I'm just not sure what'd I do with it.
M4UsedRollout
Wine and Proton are hitting it out of the park, and Proton has Valve behind it. Depending on what it is, you needed software may soon get Linux support whether it likes it or not.
idkwhatusernametochoose
I have thought about this a lot as an IT guy. Technically you could setup linux and then have a windows VM with hardware passthrough, that would solve all the problems I can think of. But setting this up does require sacrificing a goat, and if you have an AMD GPU like me (because NVIDIA is turning anti-consumer by the day), you are almost out of luck with that option...
If hardware passthrough becomes standardized, linux might have a real argument though even for people like us.
Sebastopol140
That's still the problem. I need a working platform. Photoshop, several graphics tools that have no equivalent, also some audio tools that have no equivalent.
TehBox0rz
I’m going to have to upgrade my 2010 imac soon and I’m dreading the adobe subscription fees. Probably going to end up using affinity
Badprenup
Yo ho ho my friend.
manymadmasks
I feel you. I use Clip Studio Paint for most of my stuff, so I'm able to dodge Adobe's AI scrapping fuckery. Used a bit of affinity; works fine. Takes a little getting use to, tiny bit unintuitive at first. But a one-time fee and it's yours forever? Hell yes.
Strondvordr
Linux, for when you want to spend 2 hours a night deciphering why your games crash all the time, every night.
ArchiMarK
Not always, but christ I've been down that rabbit hole one too many times... I just want to squeeze in 1 hour of gaming, not 3 hours on Stackoverflow hunting down obscure CLI commands to get it to work.
Djohaal
Dunno why you got downvoted, its legit the geniuine linux experience for me too
OnlyOneArman
What are you all doing? I've been running Linux for nearly twenty years, and apart from an occasional hiccough, haven't had any problems. Are you trying to run your games from the command line on an off-brand laptop from 2005 running Arch, or what?
M4UsedRollout
Counterpoint: Steam Deck.
I don’t remember ever having a game crash on mine.
DarkBusterBaron
I have once but that was an issue with the game not the Steamdeck.
Strondvordr
Yea but thats a little different than a personal pc run on Linux. Its designed to work around a limited version of Linux (iirc) and there quite a few games you just can't play on it because 99% of people don't build games to run on Linux. So yea, it'll work great when in an environment where everything has been specifically catered to it but outside that... Good luck.
M4UsedRollout
The only games I’ve encountered that didn’t “work” on the steamdeck are because they don’t have controller support. If I docked it, I’d be able to play those too.
Proton works wonders.
cousteau
I bought a new PC (not the best in the market) just about when Windows Vista was released, and have been using Linux since then :I
Rystefn
I've been dual OSing for years now. If I wasn't a gamer, I'd be pure Linux. And I'm closer and closer all the time.
WhereDidTheLastHourGo
Or ChromeOS Flex
Zynthasius
And 90% of my games don't run on it.
Noahbalboa82
Funny enough, Linux is faster than Windows for many applications.
Suomijuusto89
Yeah, it's faster to crash
eetsumkaus
That's what happens when like all your dev effort goes into the kernel
billymaditsdone
The Steam Deck has got me thinking of switching. Heck, I haven't touched my windows 10 gaming rig for almost two years since I got the steam deck..
billymaditsdone
Oh..I just realized that I never activated it...but I have bought multiple w10 licenses.
ProfFurryPaws
Steamdeck in desktop mode was my daily driver for 5 months earlier this year, since I couldn't run the AC and my big windows 10 PC on the same circuit during summer heat. Was a great experience, and I find I still use it 50% of the time now. A keyboard & mouse in the dock, and I'm good to go.
MatrimBloodyCauthon
Asking for a friend, would an NVIDIA computer intel core be able to just pop on over to Linux?
FoamingToad
Get a spare hard drive. You can easily run most distros on a 120MB SSD, which will cost less than £30. If it doesn't work for you, you have some fast storage for docs or something.
cousteau
I'd recommend 120 GB at least. Although I did install Lubuntu on a laptop with an 8 GB SSD (and 1 GB RAM) some years ago.
FoamingToad
Yeah, being stupid and I mixed up my capacity abbreviations. 120GB is your man, @op
cousteau
Happens to the best of us :) Or at least it happens to me quite often. Guess it happens to the best of us too.
MatrimBloodyCauthon
My biggest thing is making sure I can play games on my off time, I hear Linux is kind of hit or miss?
cousteau
My experience with Steam games is rather good in general.
queequegaz
I'm my experience, anything on Steam will run great except multiplayer games that use "kernel level anticheat". Check protondb.com to make sure.
Outside of Steam, it's a bit more hit/miss, especially if you don't like tinkering.
ArchiMarK
Check compatability beforehand when you have half an hour or so to spare. Steam usually lists linux compatibility, and a short internet search should be able to tell you your GPU is decently supported or not. CPUs are less of a problem in my experience.
MatrimBloodyCauthon
Thanks!
cousteau
Steam has a few native Linux games, not many, but it also has like a button to install and play ANY Steam game on Linux, even Windows-only titles, with varying degrees of success (but mostly good).
thedarkcanuck
You know what I have absolutely no idea how to use? Linux.
fleetmind
I have two computers that I needed to upgrade, one older laptop that has Windows 8.1 and my daily driver desktop with Windows 10.
I buy a license for Win11 and go to download it, but I can’t until I run this program that checks if my computer is compatible with Windows 11. My desktop is not compatible, so I cannot download the software I purchased.
I go on my laptop and get the program, but it tells me that I must have at least Windows 10 to run the program to tell if I can install Win11.
fleetmind
So now my old laptop runs Ubuntu, and I don’t know what I’ll do with my desktop when Win10 is no longer supported. I have so many games in my ~18 year old Steam Library, and so few work on Linux.
Quaxx
Looks like he was right and Win 10 might be the last version for many users ;)
HandoB4Javert
KingORedLions
It's the last for me. 10 was a frustrating pain in the ass; invasive, out of my control, extremely user unfriendly and a load of stuff that frequently just didn't work.
There will be no Windows 11 machine for me.
SomeDetroitGuy
The word "many" is not an accurate choice in this context.
SodomySnake
Holding out hope for Windows 12. But not a lot of hope.
ballsoutflyer
By then, you won't need a high-end gpu... because it'll cost as much as a house. And you won't have to save anything. Because the entire OS will just be a fancy web-based terminal connected to their cloud.
manulofdoom
Oh, no, you will still need high-end hardware... because everything is going to be written in half-assed javascript
SodomySnake
This is exactly the sort of thing I'm afraid will happen.
CortexDagger
It is for me. My interactions with my moms computer and windows 11 have been a frustrating experience. It's not user friendly and feels like so many things are forced to happen. My computer isn't windows 11 compatible anyways.
Raziel420
I spent about 2 years using windows 11, I switched to Ubuntu when they started the copilot taking screenshots nonsense. Still go to the same websites, still play the same games, and have even switched distros to Mint. The only problems I have are with windows only kernel level anticheats, since Linux can't use them and doesn't need them, it gets auto banned.
Tortoiseshell11
I have to use 11 at work, I really don’t care for it at all. Especially with all the ai garbage they keep trying to make happen.
Duckgooser
There's a massive fight going on with tech & management at my workplace. Management want us to roll over to 11 but we deal with a lot of sensitive data & tech aren't convinced they can secure it. We get a lot of cyberattacks as is & they're saying that rolling out 11 means they'll also have to triple the number of closed linux systems we're running, which make up about 30% of our terminals already
Minarch
I have been using Debian 12, KDE Plasma, X11 for the last week and I have some notes. Nvidia sucks. Would be easier with an AMD GPU.
Minarch
My point is that to have no-nonsense experience, it requires the correct parts in your PC to begin with.
cousteau
My experience with Nvidia nowadays isn't bad. It was my understanding that several Linux programs worked better with Nvidia than AMD. At least using the official drivers (from Ubuntu repos; guess Debian has the same) games work flawlessly. Back in the day Nvidia on Linux was quite horrible though. Go ask Linus…
Minarch
My first problem with Nvidia was the login screen after having installed the drivers. On KDE Plasma, Wayland is set to default and there is no out-of-box support for Nvidia in Wayland. And there is no fallback if it fails. I had to read about it on my phone to figure out how to access the X11 option from the login screen. The average user would just think it was broken and went back to Windows.
cousteau
Oh, that might be. I use XFCE; I think that still uses good ol' X11. (I still haven't figured out what the hell is Wayland but all in all I'm glad I'm not using it.)
heyimjephph
You know what also doesn't need a new PC? Windows 11. Even if it says the hardware isn't supported you can just install it anyway.
OverpricedCrayon
You know what’s a pain in the ass to use? Linux.
Slugsie
Hmm, maybe next year will be the year of Linux. Just like 2024 was, and 2023 was, and 2022 was, and 2021 was, and 2020 was, and 2019 was, and 2018 was, and 2017 was, and 2016 was, and 2015 was, and 2014 was, and 2013 was, and 2012 was, and 2011 was, and 2010 was, and 2009 was, and 2008 was, and 2006 was, and 2005 was, and 2004 was, and 2003 was, and 2002 was, and 2001 was, and 2000 was, and 1999 was.....
SilverNicktail
As a Linux user, who gives a shiiiiiiiiiit. Tools aren't a popularity contest, lol
Colopty
Nothing's going to be "the year", it's all just gradual shifts in various factors. Linux is a good choice already though.
cousteau
IT'S FINALLY COMING! https://yotld.com/
cousteau
(bonus points if you read the website's source code. Yes, someone took the time to put that up.)
RubberBabyBuggyBumpersBabysittingService
True, but each year it gains more traction, or new momentum, like the steam deck etc. Gaming is where Linux has suffered in the past. Now it runs many games smoother than Windows can. But yeah, maybe 2025, maybe 2026, maybe 2027...
TresusIbor
Make it run games smoothly and not throw a godamned fit when I try to run the eldritch as holy fuck 100 character string that amounts to "Please download Discord"
MorayCup
Ive had no major issues over the past year or so since i switched
sora3087
gaming is way better but Nvidia support is still trash and it has a commanding 77% share according to steam metrics
JohnnyLawlessEsq
Which is why Apex just dropped support for Linux.
RubberBabyBuggyBumpersBabysittingService
Due to cheaters apparently. It's the exception that proves the rule I think. Proton dB says it's gold so who cares what the Devs think!
RunningDroid
They dropped it because they want kernel-level anti-cheat (aka a rootkit): https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/31/24284644/apex-legends-loses-linux-steam-deck-support-anti-cheat
JohnnyLawlessEsq
It doesn't *matter* why they dropped support for Linux. The fact is, they *did.*
Xerxes4242
I see your point but the more ads they shove into menus, the more they try to force you to use their proprietary cloud shit, and things like the Crowdstrike incident push more and more people to switch and develop more user friendly builds.
AnonOmis1000
These mother fuckers are really gonna make me learn how this shit works, aren't they?
SilverNicktail
You know what also doesn't need a new PC? Windows 11. There's already community hacks to work around this drivel.
awkungen42
Linux is far superior to Windows. However until they get robust integrated software, firmware, and UI for regular users, I don't think it will be used en masse outside of servers and corporate use.
dbbbbs
Until the hardware can’t keep up with your throughput needs l
Bojovnik84
Snore, find a better argument. Linux is still in 3rd place, despite PC and Mac being as horrible as they are.
certainlynotaserialkiller
And nobody is going to adopt it as long as linux fanboys and its developers keep saying "just use the CLI!" To fix any issue. Stop that.
SilverNicktail
Oh no, not powerful tools that people can use to give you solutions in a single line rather than 20 pages of PDF.
cousteau
The reason you see so much command-based help is that it's 1000x easier to explain how to do something by just pasting an obscure command on a blog post or forum than making a tutorial on how to do it graphically. "Just open a terminal and type fhslcjrkekgksjf -v 10" is faster to write than "Click here. *screenshot* Now click here. *screenshot* Now click where it says 'Options'. Now…"
Ifekinlovesauerkraut
Rummaging around in the registry to fix any issue is way more frustrating and overly complicated than using the CLI.
jinbee
Seriously this is not a necessary thing for modern easy distros like Mint or Ubuntu for most people most of the time. These days Windows is more arcane and tortuous.
Colopty
I find that newer answers are more likely to provide a GUI solution, though search engines still tend to refer to older answers that use the CLI. Granted, it *can* be easier to just say "copypaste this one-liner into the CLI" instead of providing detailed multi-step GUI instructions, so people who are more comfortable with that tool to the point where they don't think about how most people think it looks intimidating tend to default to it as a solution.
FoamingToad
Even on windows land, I would prefer a cli : command prompt/vbs/power shell solution than a fifteen minute rambling YouTube video.
eetsumkaus
Ahh, there you are. Always at least one. I actually ran Linux desktop for many years, just recently switched back to windows because application ecosystems are just too complex now. I just emulate Linux if I need it (also Windows now comes with a handy dandy Linux emulator).
makesense
You know what doesn't need to be said? Anything involving Linux. And this from someone who doesn't mind Linux.
Duckgooser
My son "upgraded" to windows 11. I'm going back to linux when windows 10 is done. It's awful, worst release of windows I've seen. I swapped to linux once I was forced onto vista & stayed until windows 10 & that was only because it came with the computer.
cousteau
Same here except I've been buying OS-free computers since then so no Windowses for me. (I have to use it for my work laptop though)
Ifekinlovesauerkraut
You know what doesn't need to be installed from scratch, if you get a new PC? That's right. Linux. It goes into the square hole.
ItsACrazyWorld
Yea Linux is great! if you know anything about Linux and basic computing which the average consumer does not. Any problem you will run into with Linux and you WILL run into problems, will require you know how to use the CLI.
Villosopher
Recently installed Ubuntu on my laptop. Still got Windows and switch boot order based on needs, but started learning CLI and so far it’s pretty cool. Maybe someday I’ll complete the switch but I’m enjoying it so far
ServerMonkeyKing
Headless Linux is great for server infrastructure, but generally sucks for user workstations and office productivity applications unless you have a well trained and informed user base and a strong sustainment team who are capable of supporting non-windows products. I'd keep the Linux workstations to the super user base (coders, developers, admins, network engineers, etc) and provide the "simple" and "ease of use" OSs to the normal work force.
subparsubpoena
Have been running Linux Mint as daily driver for years. It's a breath of fresh air compared to Windows.
ISCPhotography
Over a decade in Mint. It's now to the point "it just works" , even on weird Chinese hardware (14c28t Xeon, Chinese motherboard).
MisterLemons
How is it with program compatibility? That is to ask: is it a hassle to generally add, remove, or modify programs and games?
Cause I am *so* close to trying it out.
velicitia
(1) open software manager. (2) find application. (3) install <-- pretty much the extent of it for "normal software" that's maintained by Ubuntu or Debian (i.e. linuxmint's parent and grandparent distributions). If it's not in there, then you grab either an "AppImage" or the "*Deb package" directly from the developer. The days of "required compile from source" are pretty well over for general usage.
Games: Steam (mostly) has that covered, but games requiring rootkits are no-go generally.
dbbbbs
Agreed. I used Slackware for many years in embedded systems and it was powerful and great. I loved you could remove all the functions not needed for any given application
TheOnlyPtylerdactyl
New PC, old PC, Linux barely needs electricity to function
Sypurist
Is it true you could install Linux on a 20 year old laptop?
velicitia
Not one of the snappy "new, super pretty" desktop releases; but there's definitely "something" that's likely to run on it.
Thorinori
Depends on the version but yeah, seeing as Linux as a concept has been around longer than that
SaturnineCult
Maybe if they dropped the hundred different distros and just focused on one, people might be more interested.
LeftRightThere
I use RHEL/OEL at work, and Debian at home, but not as my daily in either case. It’s the stupid stuff, like 7zip and 3rd party device software. Even Mac doesn’t have a 7zip GUI! When I develop software sometimes I want a gui to view into and browse a tar/iso/zip /win,etc
Columbus43219
Colopty
There's no "they" who controls every single distro and can thus bring their focus to just one while dropping everything else. Now the good thing is that for people in general, nearly every single one of those "hundred different distros" aren't worth considering, the choice is really just between Ubuntu and Mint. Pick whichever name you like best. The rest of them are ones where if you need them you'll know, and if you don't know you don't need them.
Duckgooser
The only way their comment could've missed the mark more is if they said "We'd have better operating systems by now if macos & windows would just focus one OS"
BrdCdn
The fact that there isn't a unified "they" is exactly why it will never be mainstream common. Too fragmented.
Colopty
True, it's why Android will never be mainstream as well, as that's fragmented between a bunch of phone suppliers offering their own version instead of there only being a single unified supplier.
Which is fitting, since Android *is* Linux.
Duckgooser
That's not how open source works
SaturnineCult
Which is really the problem there. I like the idea but it doesn't exactly help linux anymore.
RunningDroid
To be clear, your statement is roughly equivalent to "Maybe if they dropped the hundred different building designs and just focused on one, people might be more interested."
SaturnineCult
All depends whether you want many nice looking buildings, or just one that makes you survive the environment around.
SandwichRGood
Except Linux is in no position to ever become mainstream with the common consumer. Windows and Microsoft may be going down the gutter, but it’s still by far the most compatible with many programs out there as well as being the most usable with less technologically-inclined people. People like to tout Linux as the “perfect solution OS” but in reality it is nowhere near reaching that status in terms of accessibility and ease of use. You effectively need to be a tech whiz to understand most of it.
comacomacomacomachameleon
"You effectively need to be a tech whiz to understand most of it" - is flat out wrong for modern mainstream desktop distros. I'd bet you could sit a random person down with something like Fedora and they could use it for everything they need to do with no issues.
Suomijuusto89
There are so damn many different linux distros that even the tech wiz can't say which one is the best for which use and whether it will still be supported a year after the release.
JohnnyLawlessEsq
1) This is the Linux equivalent of the "Good Guy With a Gun" fantasy for a lot of gun people.
If all you need to do is use a browser or an office suite, then there are four hundred different Linux distros that are all designed to look and feel like Windows so everything is friendly for you.
The *instant* you need to *anything* more sophisticated than your great grandma browsing Facebook on Firefox, that goes completely out the window and it becomes monstrously unfriendly and hard to...
JohnnyLawlessEsq
2) understand. I've tried for twenty years to make the jump to Linux, but every single time, something makes me throw my hands up and head back to Windows. I'm not a programmer. I don't work on computer systems for a living. I don't *want* to have to learn Lua AND Python to be able to play Red Dead 2, or whatever.
Linux simply isn't viable as a normal operating system for anyone but people who work with it for a living, or who only need it for the browser.
JohnnyLawlessEsq
Alright, I'm going to download this package and we're going to install it. Wait. This package isn't compatible with this distro... Okay. There must be a conversion package on the user repository... Ah! Nice. Okay. Got that set up. Okay, conversion layer, do your thing! Warning. Okay. "Packages created after version 247.33 requires SmolPy compression library..." Okay, where do I get that? Oh okay. Here's the package... What the... This is the same type of package I'm trying to install to begin wi
comacomacomacomachameleon
I'd bet your average user needs a browser and MAYBE a text editor but with things like Google Docs and Office 365 that's dubious.
JohnnyLawlessEsq
Ah yes, the mythical "average user."
Those people are already using MacBooks or iPads.
JohnnyLawlessEsq
You know what OS has been on the verge of widespread popularity for almost twenty five years?
Linux.
I already have a daily driver that requires me to go through expert-level troubleshooting and maintenance requirements for me to be able to do basic, ordinary shit with it (my car). I don't need another essential appliance that is also a full-blown hobby just to keep it running.
BrotherOwl
Agreed
Thorinori
That has become less and less the case over the years, there are distros out there now that are *barely* harder to manage than windows, if at all. It has become more and more approachable specifically because of this perception
JohnnyLawlessEsq
No, it has not. Not in any real way. If all you need is a browser and, if you want to get *really* fancy, an office suite, sure. Linux Mint is great. I put that on my dad's laptop (he's 80) and he does just fine. If you want to do anything more involved than that, you're still gonna be fucking around with repositories and command lines and compilers. As Alec from Technology Connections said, I want to *do work* **on** my computer, not **work on** my computer. Linux evangelists forget that.
Thorinori
You severely underestimate how much work has gone into making Linux more approachable for people. You absolutely can get a full setup without ever pulling up a terminal nowadays. Sure you can't just go download arbitrary program #124357 on the internet, but odds are you can find it in the app center for the distro, which has a GUI and everything, AND keeps shit updated. Just because it behaves DIFFERENTLY than Windows doesnt make it harder.
JohnnyLawlessEsq
Like all Linux evangelists, you aren’t *listening* to what people actually need.