Yeah, but it really fucks over poor people, especially if there's a long time window for what's "repeat." I went six years between forgetting to get my plates renewed and the fine doubled. Both times I was only over by a month.
This is why we gotta start basing fines off someone's income. Sooner or later there's an amount of money he'll at least vaguely blink at. (and also it has the nice other-end effect of not making some poor sap unable to buy food because they were speeding on their way to work and got pulled over.)
Sweden or finland do it this way ( I'm too high rn to remember the correct country) a few years back they had a guy pay around 10000 for a speeding ticket. Was somewhere in scandinavia
It's almost like the laws should be changed so that you can be fined up to, say, three times (to give people the opportunity to fix a genuine mistake), then immediately progress to actual prison time PLUS fines or something.
Do it like in Finland where fines are calculated in relation to the income. Like Anders Wiklöf( multi millionaire and owner of a major investment company) who in 2023 Drove 37 km over the limit and had to pay 126000 Euro. Fines are calculated based on daily income
I'm reminded of a story about a college kid from a rich family who illegally parked in faculty-only parking spaces every single day. They ticketed and fined him, and he paid the fine every single time, that very day. As far as he was concerned, the fine was the price of getting a really convenient parking space.
Just wait until you hear about hospitals' lawyers calculating whether it'd be cheaper to pay out a wrongful death settlement rather than having to incur the cost of saving you after medical malpractice and pay you out for the possible complications that come later.
Heard similar bullshit from classmates who worked oil and gas. Acceptable loss of human life or crippling injury was weighed against the per minute cost of a shutdown for anything short of the rig blowing out, blowing up, or catching fire.
That's what it was all about - wrongful death - it had to be done. I was the one that handled the photos. They absolutely did not want anyone to see them, share them, or let them 'get out'.
The fight club novel has a pretty good example too. (Number of vehicles) x (probability of defective failure) x (average payout to the family of the victims) . If that calculation is less than the cost of a total recall, they don't do the recall.
and it works. until there's some sort of public outcry or bad press. social media is good for that. it's one of the new things that it's good for. Once this shady stuff is called out, the company usually decides some sort of token "no wrongdoing admitted" recall is thrown out there as a semi-public show of responsibility.
I mean I get it's bullshit but this is probably the least significant and most relatable of all the things he does with his money. Be angry at his abuse of workers, not of his HOA violations.
There's probably security cars circling around the property and cameras hidden everywhere. You'd need to be really creative how to get some flammable liquids in there first. Once that's done the lighting of a match or throwing it or a lit cigarette etc might be the easiest part.
More than likely. It's an island (village?) where he bought three of these fucking things. I'd expect the entire neighborhood to have rather beefy surveillance.
It would be a shame if someone casually walked along the entire hedge, spraying root killer deep into the center of the hedge. A damn shame. Hope nobody does.
I'm in favor of making Bezos pay more taxes but I'm wondering what harm there is in having a super tall hedge. Is he hurting property values in some way or violating some FAA regulation? I think he just wants more privacy. Let him having privacy with super tall hedges.
It’s not like one can „install“ a hedge like that. I have the same type (Thunia), it’s about 13/14 feet tall and it has been growing for +30 years. Estimating this one is at least 80 yrs old and also there are the same type hedges across the street in the background, so he is not the only one
Couldnt tell you honestly maybe about light to the road or sightlines, safety concerns about such a tall hedge falling over. either way its irrelavent its a reasonably just law that he is breaking
No one is going to ask why a high fence is illegal? Especially if it's a living fence? I mean I hate Bezos as much if not more than the next guy but don't let your hate stop you from thinking.
We will forcefully take people's homes and bulldoze them when they hoard *stuff*...we put these people on the covers of magazines and in the white house. Just bc science says it's true doesn't mean our broken society understands it. Climate change has proven that.
That and Finland's method of (traffic) fines based a percentage of one's income, as flat fees are just heinously skewed to punish the less fortunate. Though preferably based on wealth in this case, due to the countless loopholes that exist.
Here in Finland, fine amounts are based on your income. People with low income might have to pay a few hundred euros while richer people tens of thousands. That said, Bezos et all have gotten so rich our system wouldn't work with them anymore.
But if it's down to actual daily disposable income (not unrealized gains), which is how most of those are done, it will be as meaningless as taxes are for them. So much would need to change outside of that fine structure to make it meaningful. It would still help with a bunch of rich assholes, but the ultra rich play a whole different game when it comes to defined income
It can also be a rule for the area/community. I know a town that says no businesses can have big ass signs as a rule/law that a lot of businesses have out front.
As much as I hate HOAs, it seems to me that this is the 100% legitimate use case of an HOA. He's built a hedge that objectively has a negative impact on the lives of others around him. It's so tall that it casts enormous shadows over other people's houses and gardens. It stops people seeing the view. It's genuinely having a negative impact on other people.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending it, but I imagine the other people living in proximity are ultra wealthy enough to not give a shit when they probably have many other ways to get better views with their wealth. They probably don't care for gardens enough for that to matter, as well. I just don't think the regular Joes that would be annoyed by this are living in the same neighborhood as Jeff Bezos. So, probably not as much harm being done as you would think.
I'd just go with a smaller duration. It's a monthly fee, so double it monthly. Powers of two start off reasonable but go up ridiculously fast. After one year, the fee would be over $4 million per month. After two years, it'd be over $16 *billion* dollars a month. Even Besos can't flaunt that for too long.
Yep. I like the rule in some European countries where fines are a percentage of wealth/income. Like, the brakes on bigger vehicles are burlier because we want them to stop. Same should apply here.
There was a rich guy who got a $130,000 ticket because he was worth so much, I remember the article comments had a bunch of redneck looking profile photos saying it was unfair to him despite how rich he was
Bigger brakes don't stop you faster, but they can withstand heat longer so they'll continue to actually work for longer. Bigger tires will stop you faster, though.
Yes they do. They create more friction because they have more surface area in contact with the thing they're braking. Did your physics teacher teach you wrong as a joke?
No, I remember my physics lessons. F = µN. Surface area is not a component of said friction calculation. What bigger brakes provide is the ability to dissipate heat more rapidly, so that the brakes don't overheat when trying to shed kinetic energy from larger or faster-moving vehicles.
I guarantee you that the brakes on, say, a 777 are bigger than the brakes on my Prius, but I will accept your pedantic and go with "more powerful" instead. I believe my point stands.
The trouble with that is these arseholes play the system so that they have no income, so a percentage wouldn’t work. After the 3rd fine, I’d just send someone to cut down the hedge and bill him.
That is a decent solution, but increasing fines means at some point he'd probably be providing most of the cities budget, so leave the hedge/fence up and let him pay!
Yeah that’s bullshit. If it was anyone else the city would send in a crew after 2 months and cut it down and charge the landowner 10k and a summons to court where they will be either charged another fine and or possibly require community service
The fine is now $1000 per month ($12,000 annually) It would take 20 years to reach $1 Billion Six. Bezos (age 61) is worth $190 Billion today. That's as far as my math will go - my head is starting to hurt.
$12,000 is 0.0012% of $1 billion. At 3% interest (a particularly poor, but guaranteed, bond rate) on $1 billion, it would only take him 3.5 *hours* to earn $12,000.
Billionaires literally cannot spend money faster than they "earn" it.
FuzzyMedic
Nobody will see anyone planting kudzu in that lot. Perhaps.
KAPTKipper
A few gallons of round-up later
Wor3q
This is why all repeating fines should be exponential. It will get even the richest sooner or later.
nakedriver
Yeah, but it really fucks over poor people, especially if there's a long time window for what's "repeat." I went six years between forgetting to get my plates renewed and the fine doubled. Both times I was only over by a month.
JonathanShahen
source?
AspiringWriter
Is there any reason why a single person couldn't throw a Molotov cocktail over that fence? Its not THAT high.
yelesuo
He dips into his hedge fund ☝️🤣
graehall
HAH
OnceBotheredTwiceShy
DarthGoodguy
Pretty sure this used to be David Geffen’s place in Holmby Hills.
Wolfschwarzmond
Yeah and I'm quite sure that hedge is at least a decade old.
DarthGoodguy
Yeah, pretty sure Geffen put it up in the 00’s
Fishkeeper
This is why we gotta start basing fines off someone's income. Sooner or later there's an amount of money he'll at least vaguely blink at.
(and also it has the nice other-end effect of not making some poor sap unable to buy food because they were speeding on their way to work and got pulled over.)
ThatLeftistBlackMetalWeeb
Sweden or finland do it this way ( I'm too high rn to remember the correct country) a few years back they had a guy pay around 10000 for a speeding ticket. Was somewhere in scandinavia
bigby4sheriff
Crime is legal if you can afford it
DocFunkenstein
It's almost like the laws should be changed so that you can be fined up to, say, three times (to give people the opportunity to fix a genuine mistake), then immediately progress to actual prison time PLUS fines or something.
Perish the thought.
AlwaysDownvotesDogs
This right here. Because otherwise, what's the point?
flipj
Looks awfully flammable.
CgnCalling
Do it like in Finland where fines are calculated in relation to the income. Like Anders Wiklöf( multi millionaire and owner of a major investment company) who in 2023 Drove 37 km over the limit and had to pay 126000 Euro. Fines are calculated based on daily income
irondragoon
All fines should be percentage based and stacking for repeat offenses.
AnonsAndMinions
Boy does that look highly flammable
Rodley
Yezzzzz!
Shaodyn
I'm reminded of a story about a college kid from a rich family who illegally parked in faculty-only parking spaces every single day. They ticketed and fined him, and he paid the fine every single time, that very day. As far as he was concerned, the fine was the price of getting a really convenient parking space.
SnorHEEdenRAden
Just wait until you hear about hospitals' lawyers calculating whether it'd be cheaper to pay out a wrongful death settlement rather than having to incur the cost of saving you after medical malpractice and pay you out for the possible complications that come later.
imakesoap
And how they will cut Medicare so that our grandmas don’t have sufficient health care and then die, so they will no longer be a drain on society
Pokegeologist
Heard similar bullshit from classmates who worked oil and gas. Acceptable loss of human life or crippling injury was weighed against the per minute cost of a shutdown for anything short of the rig blowing out, blowing up, or catching fire.
zoltarpanaflex
I worked at a law firm that did that to show 'probable life wealth' in wrongful death. It was creepy as hell
donutposse11337
It may seem creepy or morbid to some, but we have to have a way to value loss so people who are harmed can get justice.
zoltarpanaflex
That's what it was all about - wrongful death - it had to be done. I was the one that handled the photos. They absolutely did not want anyone to see them, share them, or let them 'get out'.
Omnimorph2112
The fight club novel has a pretty good example too. (Number of vehicles) x (probability of defective failure) x (average payout to the family of the victims) . If that calculation is less than the cost of a total recall, they don't do the recall.
daddydeezy
Are you my single serving friend?!
Mostlydeadpool
and it works. until there's some sort of public outcry or bad press. social media is good for that. it's one of the new things that it's good for. Once this shady stuff is called out, the company usually decides some sort of token "no wrongdoing admitted" recall is thrown out there as a semi-public show of responsibility.
CrabbyBlueberry
(That's in the movie, too)
Arkvoodle
I mean I get it's bullshit but this is probably the least significant and most relatable of all the things he does with his money. Be angry at his abuse of workers, not of his HOA violations.
Metallica93
Burn it down.
MaleProstateMilker88
There's probably security cars circling around the property and cameras hidden everywhere. You'd need to be really creative how to get some flammable liquids in there first. Once that's done the lighting of a match or throwing it or a lit cigarette etc might be the easiest part.
Metallica93
More than likely. It's an island (village?) where he bought three of these fucking things. I'd expect the entire neighborhood to have rather beefy surveillance.
MaleProstateMilker88
Ah, if it's an island and not mainland then it's really hard to do anything. There might even be drones patrolling the area.
LordFancypantsicus
It would be a shame if someone casually walked along the entire hedge, spraying root killer deep into the center of the hedge. A damn shame. Hope nobody does.
SMB42
Don't make plants suffer!! Just burn the house down & turn the inside into a park
devasto
FaecalJacksonPollock
MarcUK
The fence looks like it's disguised as a hedge...
SomeGeek75ygh
Be a shame when he finds out that no fence is high enough to stop the USAF.
afatality
Kudzu
Kablooeeey
It's like a huge sign saying "set me on fire as prelude to burning the entire fucking place down".
SwiftyGuy
Drone the bastard. Repeatedly.
MaddogDelphi1997
How much is the fine? I can respect a man who wants his privacy and doesn't want to get robbed.
MaddogDelphi1997
But having said that, Bezos should absolutely be forced to pay more in taxes.
Feralkyn
...Why is a certain fence height illegal? Unless you're building so high it's a risk to planes, why the fuck is that anyone else's business?
KingORedLions
Public safety (e.g. traffic line of sight), obstructing light, restricting airflow, etc.
ElbowDeepInYou
None of those apply to what's shown in the video, and restricting airflow is just pure nonsense when talking about a border to your home.
RoyalOss
In my country it has to do with scenic view usually. So it doesnt bothers the neighbourhood.
Feralkyn
PS I can find absolutely no source on this that isn't from this exact video
whipyougood
This is why fines need to be proportional to income or wealth.
sadurdaynight
There should be a max num of times fined then it turns into criminal charges. Bc someone flipping off the legal system with fines shouldn't be ok.
datphone777365
Oligarchs punishing themselves? Pffft lol.
Jman46
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/
mikeoui
THIS
MaddogDelphi1997
I'm in favor of making Bezos pay more taxes but I'm wondering what harm there is in having a super tall hedge. Is he hurting property values in some way or violating some FAA regulation? I think he just wants more privacy. Let him having privacy with super tall hedges.
CgnCalling
It’s not like one can „install“ a hedge like that. I have the same type (Thunia), it’s about 13/14 feet tall and it has been growing for +30 years. Estimating this one is at least 80 yrs old and also there are the same type hedges across the street in the background, so he is not the only one
Metallica93
Don't support an asshole just because you don't understand something. It's a local ordinance. You either change it or follow it. Simple as.
elbowdeepinastupidsexycentaur
Why should he be allowed to break the law?
leperoutcastunclean
Why does this particular law exist? As someone who lives in a neighborhood with an HOA, I'm forced to ask.
elbowdeepinastupidsexycentaur
Couldnt tell you honestly maybe about light to the road or sightlines, safety concerns about such a tall hedge falling over. either way its irrelavent its a reasonably just law that he is breaking
MaddogDelphi1997
Right, I was just wondering why this particular law exist. I suppose blocking sunlight is a concern here for drivers on that part of the road.
SomeGeek75ygh
Structural instability for one thing. Safety codes. Property values. Lots of valid reasons.
PointlessNips
No one is going to ask why a high fence is illegal? Especially if it's a living fence? I mean I hate Bezos as much if not more than the next guy but don't let your hate stop you from thinking.
Zeckenschwarm
That's a hedge, not a fence. Unless the fence is hidden inside the hedge.
yelesuo
He has a hedge fund.🤣
AFSamizdat
"In Los Angeles, hedges are legally considered fences and are subject to the same height restrictions, particularly in front yards"
woozle
yeah, he can afford to pay more taxes
khora
Is there really a difference between fines and taxes in this case?
mrpink83
...but he won't. He's sick with money addiction.
woozle
Autittuderp
Hoarding of literally everything else in this world is considered a mental illness...but not money? Cool.
mrpink83
I'm absolutely certain it's a mental illness... that fact is backed by multiple scientific studies.
BlazeMarshall
Will never be legally treated as one though.
Autittuderp
We will forcefully take people's homes and bulldoze them when they hoard *stuff*...we put these people on the covers of magazines and in the white house.
Just bc science says it's true doesn't mean our broken society understands it. Climate change has proven that.
mondeca
If the punishment is a fine, the law is optional for the rich.
ForPriestSake
I think probation or home monitoring is a better punishment for the rich. Take away their freedoms like normal criminal repeat offenders
JosXII
that's why i keep saying fines should be percentage of your wealth/income, not just a flat amount (though there must be a minimum)
Beelsebooob
Unless you scale the fine with their income. Finland does that with speeding fines for example.
Bigemedic
You get the justice you can afford.
darkstarmc
Just make the time wealth based. Doubt he'd pay 45 million a month for it.
malbec
It’s just a user fee at this point
l8rrose
Good line. The version I heard was "If the punishment for the crime is a fine, then it is only a crime for the poor".
GrandmasterSpank
Yess ! Who was it that said that ?
johnxbear
Abraham lincoln: vampire hunter
Attritshun
@mondeca
Mohareb
Here in Denmark it will be cut down and you get to pay the bill for others doing it. Simple and effecient
arthurvanhoudt
Same here in NL
DarthGoodguy
If we did that in the US there’d be a bunch of motherfuckers who’ve never read the constitution shrieking about how it’s not constitutional
OldnFatBobba
Yes, but Denmark isn't an oligarchy. Apples and oranges
EverNotRelevant
That's what the city should be doing.
charondaboatman
Some states/towns here require that as well. Third fine/notice and then it’s remedied by the town/city and you pay the bill.
FineNevermind
That and Finland's method of (traffic) fines based a percentage of one's income, as flat fees are just heinously skewed to punish the less fortunate. Though preferably based on wealth in this case, due to the countless loopholes that exist.
BlazeMarshall
Yeah, but that way you don't get to keep making extra money from the constant fines.
SuperFlamingTominoHead
Here in Finland, fine amounts are based on your income. People with low income might have to pay a few hundred euros while richer people tens of thousands. That said, Bezos et all have gotten so rich our system wouldn't work with them anymore.
murderdethkill
It would if it were a % of worth
PanNonOpticon
On the other hand, there is no limit how high a tree fence can be in Finland.
somerandomusernamebecauseididntlikemyoldone
They would just find a way to show that he doesn't actually make any money at all
phreakingout
No problem, they seize the house and all assets within and sold at a public auction to defray the cost.
somerandomusernamebecauseididntlikemyoldone
But if it's down to actual daily disposable income (not unrealized gains), which is how most of those are done, it will be as meaningless as taxes are for them. So much would need to change outside of that fine structure to make it meaningful. It would still help with a bunch of rich assholes, but the ultra rich play a whole different game when it comes to defined income
phreakingout
The fines in Finland are based on your annual income. Jeff Bezos apparently made 1.68 billion USD for 2023 https://www1.salary.com/Jeffrey-P-Bezos-Salary-Bonus-Stock-Options-for-amazon-com-inc.html
His fine could be up to 10 or 15% of his annual income.
s0cratez
I'm NOT siding with the billionaire but what defines illegal here? Is that just HOA rules, municipal laws, state? Those things do matter
Thorax48
It can also be a rule for the area/community. I know a town that says no businesses can have big ass signs as a rule/law that a lot of businesses have out front.
Beelsebooob
As much as I hate HOAs, it seems to me that this is the 100% legitimate use case of an HOA. He's built a hedge that objectively has a negative impact on the lives of others around him. It's so tall that it casts enormous shadows over other people's houses and gardens. It stops people seeing the view. It's genuinely having a negative impact on other people.
EggFooYung
100% he's not part of an HOA, probably municipal law.
XEtAl
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending it, but I imagine the other people living in proximity are ultra wealthy enough to not give a shit when they probably have many other ways to get better views with their wealth. They probably don't care for gardens enough for that to matter, as well. I just don't think the regular Joes that would be annoyed by this are living in the same neighborhood as Jeff Bezos. So, probably not as much harm being done as you would think.
Beelsebooob
I mean, if the neighbours don't actually mind it, then the HOA wouldn't be doing anything about it, so...
s0cratez
Yeah, you've got a point. I just don't know what I despise more... billionaires or HOAs
HonHomes
(If this is true then) those fines should increase every year. Double them every time, he can afford it!
Firestar002
YES!!! THIS!!!
AyatollahBahloni
Every month.
deaththeunholy
Every day, let’s be real, he won’t feel it otherwise
cuddleskunk
Nah...just make the fines a percentage of your net worth.
Dasnekones
Or just say that fines are a stupid method of forcing compliance and send him to jail.
Quixus
No, he should be ordered to make the hedge compliant. If he refuses he should be jailed until he complies.
drhobotron
*day
Clayman8
No no, double them until he CANT afford it.
johnvictor
Nah, just tear down the frakking fence and every time it's put back up.
backrideup9
Or just remember that bushes are flammable.
PicassoCT
There is was, salting the road to prevent ice built up- and the salt salted the ground killing the bushes? Hello Mr. Bush..
echonite
When they are dried out* This is why you can find pockets of green trees in areas that were burnt over.
icanc4
To heck with that, just send someone with a court order and an axe
manyslayer
And also someone to chop down the hedge.
Canigetbannedagain2
Not double, it should rise exponentially.
DocTanner
Doubling every time _is_ exponential. ;)
Canigetbannedagain2
I was thinking of a much larger exponent, I should have said that. ok, maybe change it to a log 10.
DocTanner
I'd just go with a smaller duration. It's a monthly fee, so double it monthly. Powers of two start off reasonable but go up ridiculously fast. After one year, the fee would be over $4 million per month. After two years, it'd be over $16 *billion* dollars a month. Even Besos can't flaunt that for too long.
orp0piru
allenvasher3000
Agreeded but at some point he would just pay someone off to change the law
wadatahmydamie
God this take sucks. Disclaimer aside, the subtext is “why enforce the law? It’ll just get changed”
allenvasher3000
Oh no they should do everything possible to fine him, & be prepared for what he does next, & arrest the briber & the bribie
MoeMoep
If the law is changed, everyone can have high fence.
allenvasher3000
He may not care about that, or they will make it a permit & only allow so many permits per ha whatever
Ronelyn
Yep. I like the rule in some European countries where fines are a percentage of wealth/income. Like, the brakes on bigger vehicles are burlier because we want them to stop. Same should apply here.
crateo
In my country you have a time limit. After that it will be cut and you will be sent the invoice.
Cinammontoastcrunch
There was a rich guy who got a $130,000 ticket because he was worth so much, I remember the article comments had a bunch of redneck looking profile photos saying it was unfair to him despite how rich he was
thorinc
Bigger brakes don't stop you faster, but they can withstand heat longer so they'll continue to actually work for longer. Bigger tires will stop you faster, though.
bobGrimer
Yes they do. They create more friction because they have more surface area in contact with the thing they're braking. Did your physics teacher teach you wrong as a joke?
thorinc
No, I remember my physics lessons. F = µN. Surface area is not a component of said friction calculation. What bigger brakes provide is the ability to dissipate heat more rapidly, so that the brakes don't overheat when trying to shed kinetic energy from larger or faster-moving vehicles.
D4A (Driving 4 Answers) on YouTube has an excellent explanatory video: https://youtu.be/CyH5xOcsXxs?si=s4kG3VERJ2sfEd5S
Ronelyn
I guarantee you that the brakes on, say, a 777 are bigger than the brakes on my Prius, but I will accept your pedantic and go with "more powerful" instead. I believe my point stands.
itwasababyox
https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1emZvazEycmVxdnI4aG04aWU0aWh5NzBpazlnZmN5ZHY3MDNoOGFndCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/AsKkJB6JbFGiQ/200w.webp
azzabat
The trouble with that is these arseholes play the system so that they have no income, so a percentage wouldn’t work.
After the 3rd fine, I’d just send someone to cut down the hedge and bill him.
InTangier
Percentage of the value of the property, assessed by the state.
PrecogFrogOnALog
Better yet, use the money from the fine to pay city workers to cut it down to regulation height
HonHomes
That is a decent solution, but increasing fines means at some point he'd probably be providing most of the cities budget, so leave the hedge/fence up and let him pay!
retailmemedrone
Yeah that’s bullshit. If it was anyone else the city would send in a crew after 2 months and cut it down and charge the landowner 10k and a summons to court where they will be either charged another fine and or possibly require community service
Trimule
The fine is now $1000 per month ($12,000 annually) It would take 20 years to reach $1 Billion Six. Bezos (age 61) is worth $190 Billion today. That's as far as my math will go - my head is starting to hurt.
woodworkerf
Dumb ass! 12k x 20 years only equals 31 Million, not 1 billion, idiot! /S
Trimule
DocTanner
$12,000 is 0.0012% of $1 billion. At 3% interest (a particularly poor, but guaranteed, bond rate) on $1 billion, it would only take him 3.5 *hours* to earn $12,000.
Billionaires literally cannot spend money faster than they "earn" it.