Hell yes! I don’t know the first thing about African mythology and can’t say the names worth a dang. But that means I have room to learn and grow! Time to grab a notebook and google a bunch of words.
The Wagadu Chronicles was a Kickstarter from a few years back that did an Afrofantasy setting, but sadly they struggled post-pandemic and only released pdf's, so maybe these guys will go further
And have an entire civilization of nice shape shifting spider people (they're expert weavers of course, maybe just don't ask for the source of the silk when they give you something they wove) among other neat things.
Let's gooooo!! Can we also get Native American, Asian, etc? Oh man I'd be so excited. I love elves and dwarves as much as the next guy but I'd love to see the fantasy realm expand past that
Hey, friend. You might want to check out Coyote and Crow games if you're interested in a Native American ttrpg. Here's hoping you find something that catches your eye.
Pathfinder is too complicated for me, I have family members who play and there are honestly too many customizations and rules. I'm glad to hear that though!
I always thought the South/Central American supplement for 2e, Maztica, was under-rated. And Oriental Adventures got a lot more of its deserved acclaim. The game has long needed a more detailed supplement for African settings and this looks like a very worthy effort at it.
I could have sworn dndbeyond had an official WotC PoC source book but I can't find it on their full list of books anymore... I don't think it was like a "swap all mechanics with African equivalent" sort of book, but it was supposed to have adventures and settings from African lore.
Replying to myself to say I found it, it's Journeys through the Radiant Citadel, but I was mistaken, it's not all African but it was an all PoC writing team, the adventures come from various cultures.
Some sweaty racist nerd who has spent years screaming about "why don't they just make their own thing instead of race swapping?!" will see this and STILL have a problem with it
I became intrigued in other cultures mythologies due to my kids’ interest in the Greek stuff, but thought it’s so played out for me, let me found out new ones. Started reading about Aztec mythology. So many interesting gods, customs, etc. however, I came across something so disturbing…wherein when higher class Aztecs would celebrate the god of suffering, it was customary to wear the flayed skin of your servant.
Pathfinder did it in 2021, meaning they were working on it looooong before BLM started trending. https://rollforcombat.com/blog/pathfinder-lost-omens-the-mwangi-expanse-review-the-world-gets-a-little-wider/ I'm DMing a PF2E campaign right now and it's so refreshing how much dodgy homebrew I DON'T have to use because the team at Paizo has already thought of so many things that WoTC decided to skimp on. Yes, the book is THICK, it's because it's a COMPLETE ruleset, not just vague suggestions!
Was it any good, though? Was it actually respectful of the African biosphere and Native culture? Or was it like a lot of other "representation" of foreign cultures and played to colonial stereotypes like "the Natives are bent on destroying us because they hate progress" and "it's our job to civilize these people"?
It was self-contained setting, and it was quite good, in as much as any of the 2Ed stand-alone boxed settings were. Better than Al Qadim but not as good as Dark Sun. No "foreign cultures" beyond racial variants and no it wasn't a colonialist setting. It was refreshingly non-british, non-american. TSR was not wotc, and did actually put effort into their settings. Before Gygax's wife took control of the company, at least.
This is amazing. There are so many vast and wonderful mythologies out there that the world as a whole doesn't get exposed to. I'm loving this trend of indie devs making games (video and tabletop), films, animation, etc about all of these stories and folklore.
I went down a huge rabbit hole after Moana came out to learn the non-disneyfied versions of the stories it referenced. Did the same with Grimm's stories, Baba Yaga got me into Eastern European myths. We need more onramps for curiosity.
In LeVar Burton's podcast (which sadly just finished it's last season) he chooses a lot of dope short stories from authors all over the world and they present so many new (to me as a white American) premises and challenges other than "I grew up as an orphan and am now a scavenger/nobody but somehow special". It's awesome, you should check it out if you're into podcasts.
Of course! Let me know if you remember any specific link for whatever Moana rabbit hole you went down, I did my master's on New Zealand geology and dabbled slightly in Maori folklore but would love to learn more about the Pacific Islander stories.
They're doing what all these fucking billion dollar budget companies are too chicken shit to do, make original content that doesn't revolve around America and usually white people with some token diversity that could be removed from the plot with little consequences.
All these people who don't like Eurocentric games... You... Can just do this. You're absolutely welcome to do this in your games. Take L5R out of Asia and put it in Africa. Base your wizards on 15th century Moorish culture. We're supposed to be taking and remaking these worlds for our own. A sourcebook existing is neat. You know what is AMAZING? YOU CREATING IT. That will make your friends feel so much more included than any book will
No argument, but 'european mythology' has been a thing in fantasy since Tolkien. Generic stasis fantasy has been an amorphous 'Europe? but magic' for a long time.
Why this is imprtant: One summer as a kid I found D&D in a hobby store. And voracious read every thing I could find in D&D. In that one summer I went from a reading level two grades behind my peers to two grade levels ahead of my peers. In one summer.
Imagine all the kids who will pick this up and improve their lives because they improved their reading comprehension as well.
Since it's based on existing mythology, i think they are going to need to include a pronunciation guide Plus, i need that kickstarter/gofundme/whatever link. I've backed less ambitious content, i'm down for this one also
! means click your tongue. N at the start of a word is pronounced like a cross between "in" "un" and your cell phone on vibrate sitting on a desk. Nyala (a big antelope) for example is NNNN yala. not Ny ala. M is similar, just M instead of N. X is more like Greek or Hebrew, clear the phlegm out of your throat. Xosa is CCCHHHHHosa. (Maybe I exaggerate a bit on that last one.)
If you mess up pronouncing Klingon you might get a snotty nerd insulting you. If you mess up pronouncing a real language people have anxiety that the effort may come across as insulting. Which, honestly, unless the person is an ass it does not. You're trying.
There are pronunciation guides for Elvish and Klingon. There are ones for English and Dutch as well. It being a real language is more of a reason for users to want to get the pronunciation correct, not less
Yes, and there are pronunciation guides for lots of African languages and dialects as well. Saw lots of them decades ago when studying linguistics at Uni.
You are coming off as dismissive of the challenge to ensure accuracy and respect to real world languages, not reassuring new learners. This makes you seem like you don't carry respect. You might want to more carefully word your comments if this is not your intent...
Definitely needs a pronunciation guide, but don't be tempted to dumb it down. Go weird! This is your one chance to make a click consonant conlang that's not a kitchen-sink language.
Sounds dope! Oft like to play an Ethopian Jewish character in Vampire the Masquerade named Tzila who had ties to the Solomonic Dynasty (as it was historically originally an Ethopian Jewish dynasty before its Christian conversion) or if sprat neonate former IDF soldier. BUT oft played the character in different TTRPGs and this setting would be perfect for her in a fantasy setting to play with a more tangible aspect to the origins/inspirations of the character.
Sounds interesting, though I have two primary questions-- which I'd bother to actually look into if I had the chance to play DnD with any regularity. 1) I hope they're able to avoid the weird conservative bent that often crops up with things like this. Good vibes from this video, but I've been disappointed before. 2) I hope they don't commit *too* hard to keeping a 1:1 with existing classes. There's so much variety in mythology and culture, it'd be a shame to limit themselves in that way.
You have to wonder how much of this is African mythology and how much is mythology. There are 3000+ tribes, each with its own stories and lexicon covering the entire continent. When D&D tried to do "the middle east" back in 3? it just became a bunch of stereotypes about genies/mummies and lazy co-opted Muslim symbols. It basically went "eastern" = Egypt and a generic sultanate circa 1200CE. It could be really cool if done right.
I get that, but like.. even Greek and European mythology consistently receive the same treatment, despite how much more of the spotlight they typically get. Certainly, they need to be handled with respect, but there are also severe limitation that come with conveying real-world cultures into media-- and that is made even more daunting when they are translated onto fictional people.
Yeah, my comment wasn't meant to say "it's useless unless it represents every tribe". More like, he's projecting 1:1 names on to existing D&D classes which seems both lazy and a disservice to the "African Mythology". I hope it's more than that; that an effort is made to represent something uniquely pan-African, and not just a paint job over medieval European stereotypes. And also that it doesn't fall into the same lazy tropes of Zulu warriors and witchdoctors being all of Africa.
So, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm speaking as a left-leaning white guy. I'm talking about what appears to be an inherent risk any time we're dealing with the romanticization of the past-- obviously this is most common with the Abrahamic faiths, but even in other demographics that are typically extremely progressive, you'll find decently-sized pockets that are staunchly conservative or outright fascist. Many Odinists present an example for neopaganism, furries have a couple of (1/?)
(2/2) flavors. Even within the context of leftism, you'll find tankies supporting the CCP.
As far as groups that deal with the romanticization with African mythology-- which to be clear, I am not accusing the group from the post of doing, merely encouraging wariness-- I don't know of any examples dealing specifically with that, but the existence of Black Hebrew Israelites show that there is at least a similar precipice.
Love this. There's so much untapped mythology and culture around the world that can make for amazing settings, and at the same time a way to learn more about them. Not to mention adding more diverse representation to the TTRPG world, to open it up and make it more welcoming.
I seriously would have thought the warrior class would have been the Zulu tribe. I wrote a paper on Shaka Zulu in college and man, that tribe was equivalent to the Spartans in their day. True warriors.
I think part of the reason more of this type of thing hasn't been done is big corporations (Hasbro owns DND) have been criticized for cultural appropriation and racism for this type of content in the past. Gotta be super careful. It's easier for them to create fantasy stuff than it is to base worlds off of actual people.
But why not get experts on the fields? African historian, cultural experts to give their feedback? It seems they take the easy route by remaking stuff already done or staying in their lane, and that's sad.
To be fair, remember when there was an expert on the field of shakuhachi and the one Japanese American tried to raise a stink about them? It doesn't particularly matter if they are culturally sensitive to the loud complaining section. And if they're loud and fast, it'll be labeled before anyone has time to go 'wait, actually no...' because of how much more clickable negative titles are.
I agree. But Hasbro and companies like them have only one goal, and it's to make money. The only reason they care about whether or not we enjoy their product is because it can separate us from our money. It is not an artistic endeavor on their part. That's why fan content can be so much better sometimes, because it's created out of love, not greed.
That’s also why I usually recommend people not to work in big corp when the job then resolves around something they enjoy or even love. It can quickly kill the joy for that because you have amazing ideas and passion but as you said $ is the only thing of importance.
Another point may be that they don't have to be as aggressive in marketing with rehashs and remakes (Disney, looking at you). I just think it's sad because it's a downward spiral. People complain that there's nothing new, but will complain about new things nonetheless. Argh.
I'm a big consumer of Magic the Gathering and DND products, and I pay a lot of attention to what they (Hasbro) put out as a product. The general consensus from fans is that they push product after product without a lot of thought put into quality. It's more about quantity over quality. And they are squeezing too many things into too short a time period, and trying to convince us they're worth buying. It makes me sad, but it's also fine, because I'll work around their bullshit.
This is the thing that's most exciting to me in modern fantasy. I'm fucking tired of bog standard fucking euro-centrism, and I say this as someone so white fuckin' mayo's spicy. I've seen this shit before, a million times. Diverse voices and viewpoints gives for more, richer stories, with more cultures, cultural mythologies, and takes. Give me more of this! I want stories I've not read before, instead of the same ones I've read a thousand times.
I keep saying there's no reason to remake euro mythic stories and race swap everyone. There's so many good stories from other cultures that just haven't been explored at all. People are starved for OC but no studios have the balls.
I wonder how the discussion about diversity will go with a project like this? Will they be held to the same standards or will it be okay for them to only represent african people since they are not white?
As a kid, I had a book of myths and legends from all over the world, I remember many of them clearly although acknowledge that many of them (about half) were Greco-Roman. I still seek out and buy copies of the same book to give to people I know who are parents of 5-10 year olds.
I am so sick of Western European mythology and Tolkien-esque high fantasy being the "default". Like you said, there are so many cultures worth exploring. East Indian, Native American, Central/South American, African..but no. It's Western Europe, Japan, and the Norse and Greeks a distant third.
Paizo has been moving in this direction with Pathfinder. They do have an African based continent. Previously they kind of relied on dated tropes when dealing with much of it, but have been working to improve. The Mwangi Expanse book from 2021 really leaned into African mythology and the many different cultures to show it as a vibrant place not just a generic 'exotic primitive jungle.' They've done similar with their Asia analog.
Oh yeah. They've done an awesome job on really fleshing out those other parts of the world since 2nd edition dropped. 1st edition was super light on a lot of stuff surrounding anything that wasn't the european inspired fantasy lands, but 2nd seems like they've really hammered down on dropping whole source books surrounding the different lands based on other world cultures.
I based my campaign on Sumerian/Mesopotamian mythology. It works so well, and it's familiar because it established so much of human culture and mythological themes (that were later warped by copycats all around the world).
I’ve been thinking about how cool a campaign set around the Mediterranean Sea in 1-2nd century BC would be. Include all the mythology that we know about, from Phoenician to Egyptian to Babylonian to the Bible. Start the players on a ship arriving in Ugarit and have them pick a temple to visit to thank the local god for a safe journey, only to have Baal or Anat send them on a quest that takes them all up and down the Levant.
But everything changed when the Sea Peoples attacked! Seriously, go for it. A lot of those mythologies were better preserved from later monotheistic/political erasure than subsequent mythologies were.
Unfortunately not enough. Almost everything we know about the Canaanite pantheon comes from excavations in Ugarit. The leftovers of it in the Bible didn’t make a lot of sense until then. There was probably a wealth of information about it in ancient Carthage, but Rome destroyed every brick and every paper in that city. To this day almost everything we know about Carthage comes from Roman and Greek writing about them. And the Romans and Greeks HATED them.
Very true; I wish there were more, but am grateful we have as much as we do. The old northern European and new world mythologies, for example, have not fared as well due to colonialist erasure.
UberKrane
Hell yes! I don’t know the first thing about African mythology and can’t say the names worth a dang. But that means I have room to learn and grow! Time to grab a notebook and google a bunch of words.
ImgurPlz
Here's the source https://hoo.be/molombo
Thereisnogoodtwin
The Wagadu Chronicles was a Kickstarter from a few years back that did an Afrofantasy setting, but sadly they struggled post-pandemic and only released pdf's, so maybe these guys will go further
secretdpp
https://rpggeek.com/geeklist/46007/africa-themed-rpgs
zeacorzeppelin10
wyrmbear
There have been a few of these over the years. Wagadu Chronicles, Kalymba, Spears of the Dawn, etc.
PaleChapter
Pathfinder has the Mwangi Expanse; the planet's premier magical academy is based there.
DoktorWeasel
And have an entire civilization of nice shape shifting spider people (they're expert weavers of course, maybe just don't ask for the source of the silk when they give you something they wove) among other neat things.
Unholytrashpanda
Let's gooooo!!
Can we also get Native American, Asian, etc? Oh man I'd be so excited. I love elves and dwarves as much as the next guy but I'd love to see the fantasy realm expand past that
NerdNerdburger
Kara-Tur is supposed to be much of Asia east of India. Northern Maztica is still pretty undefined canonically, but there should be room
Virtue0is0upheld
Hey, friend. You might want to check out Coyote and Crow games if you're interested in a Native American ttrpg. Here's hoping you find something that catches your eye.
https://coyoteandcrow.net/
Kommadore
Pathfinder by Paizo has been branching into fantasy representations of many global cultures over the years.
Unholytrashpanda
Pathfinder is too complicated for me, I have family members who play and there are honestly too many customizations and rules. I'm glad to hear that though!
ImgurPlz
Here's the source https://hoo.be/molombo
OliverOtter
I always thought the South/Central American supplement for 2e, Maztica, was under-rated. And Oriental Adventures got a lot more of its deserved acclaim. The game has long needed a more detailed supplement for African settings and this looks like a very worthy effort at it.
drpain522
Please dont give wizards of the coast ideas, they are already stealing massive amounts of artwork, this wont end well
ImgurPlz
Here's the source https://hoo.be/molombo
theMayanStallion
Does anyone know how to support this cause?
ImgurPlz
Here's the source https://hoo.be/molombo
yougottatreatyoself
Something similar exists as both a video game and a DnD campaign that the group "Three black halflings" played through
GigglingWordBearer
What game? You have my interest.
supervillin
I could have sworn dndbeyond had an official WotC PoC source book but I can't find it on their full list of books anymore... I don't think it was like a "swap all mechanics with African equivalent" sort of book, but it was supposed to have adventures and settings from African lore.
supervillin
Replying to myself to say I found it, it's Journeys through the Radiant Citadel, but I was mistaken, it's not all African but it was an all PoC writing team, the adventures come from various cultures.
Midgarmerc
Some sweaty racist nerd who has spent years screaming about "why don't they just make their own thing instead of race swapping?!" will see this and STILL have a problem with it
Midgarmerc
looks like that sweaty racist saw my comment
SuperLordSnacks
As an African nerd, my heart is filled with nothing but joy seeing this.
secretdpp
https://rpggeek.com/geeklist/46007/africa-themed-rpgs
lapus
I sent the link to my school, maybe an after school program idea?
FightOligarchy
Check out Three Black Halflings.
ImgurPlz
Here's the source https://hoo.be/molombo
agonarch
Yeah it's awesome to see it developed like this, rather than getting Kara-tur'd or Maztica'd.
Faerun nails europe (but obviously with a fantasy spin and no england, which seems to be the way the english want it anyway)
TippyTapFuzzySocks
Same
AtmaDarkwolf
so... all members of any one tribe are ALL a single class? Seems like at least SOME would be other things, if only for basic defense and utility...
daychilde
As a boring white dude in the US, this sounds kick-ass to me!
tschallacka
Stop first, and pronounce the names. Then continue
daychilde
Wut
16bitStarbuck
Why.
HooahDO
I became intrigued in other cultures mythologies due to my kids’ interest in the Greek stuff, but thought it’s so played out for me, let me found out new ones. Started reading about Aztec mythology. So many interesting gods, customs, etc. however, I came across something so disturbing…wherein when higher class Aztecs would celebrate the god of suffering, it was customary to wear the flayed skin of your servant.
HooahDO
I chose not to share that one with my kid
SquidBait
Why post this and not give some useful info? They're trying to get this off the ground, but need people. Here's the rest of this vid. https://www.tiktok.com/@hey_molombo/video/7344058538685156654
ImgurPlz
Here's the source https://hoo.be/molombo
StellaMatutina
Because a lot of people have the ingrained angst of "fuck tiktok"
SquidBait
Yeah, I'm generally one of them, but that's the only place this guy is sharing info until he finds someone to handle PR.
ThisNameIsMaybeTaken
A-ray-bic.
Saturniidae
Pathfinder did it in 2021, meaning they were working on it looooong before BLM started trending. https://rollforcombat.com/blog/pathfinder-lost-omens-the-mwangi-expanse-review-the-world-gets-a-little-wider/ I'm DMing a PF2E campaign right now and it's so refreshing how much dodgy homebrew I DON'T have to use because the team at Paizo has already thought of so many things that WoTC decided to skimp on. Yes, the book is THICK, it's because it's a COMPLETE ruleset, not just vague suggestions!
RayneOfSalt
TSR did it with AD&D 2nd Ed back in the late 80s. There was an african-esque setting boxset.
Saturniidae
Was it any good, though? Was it actually respectful of the African biosphere and Native culture? Or was it like a lot of other "representation" of foreign cultures and played to colonial stereotypes like "the Natives are bent on destroying us because they hate progress" and "it's our job to civilize these people"?
RayneOfSalt
It was self-contained setting, and it was quite good, in as much as any of the 2Ed stand-alone boxed settings were. Better than Al Qadim but not as good as Dark Sun. No "foreign cultures" beyond racial variants and no it wasn't a colonialist setting. It was refreshingly non-british, non-american. TSR was not wotc, and did actually put effort into their settings. Before Gygax's wife took control of the company, at least.
Trassation
Uncultured white guy here. I wanna read the shit outta this! I would say "play" but you need friends for that.
Squirrelninja
Is this a kick starter? I NEED THIS
ImgurPlz
Here's the source https://hoo.be/molombo
livurz
This is dope as hell. The names are intimidating, though.
TheMouseOfMadness
This is amazing. There are so many vast and wonderful mythologies out there that the world as a whole doesn't get exposed to. I'm loving this trend of indie devs making games (video and tabletop), films, animation, etc about all of these stories and folklore.
I went down a huge rabbit hole after Moana came out to learn the non-disneyfied versions of the stories it referenced. Did the same with Grimm's stories, Baba Yaga got me into Eastern European myths. We need more onramps for curiosity.
VolcanoHerder
In LeVar Burton's podcast (which sadly just finished it's last season) he chooses a lot of dope short stories from authors all over the world and they present so many new (to me as a white American) premises and challenges other than "I grew up as an orphan and am now a scavenger/nobody but somehow special". It's awesome, you should check it out if you're into podcasts.
TheMouseOfMadness
I somehow entirely missed this one, thanks for the info!
VolcanoHerder
Of course! Let me know if you remember any specific link for whatever Moana rabbit hole you went down, I did my master's on New Zealand geology and dabbled slightly in Maori folklore but would love to learn more about the Pacific Islander stories.
PosthumousExile
They're doing what all these fucking billion dollar budget companies are too chicken shit to do, make original content that doesn't revolve around America and usually white people with some token diversity that could be removed from the plot with little consequences.
superduperyooperthatspissedoff
Check out The Dark Star trilogy, the first book is Black Leopard, Red Wolf
BDBottom
Baba Yaga can get you into classical (well, Romantic actually): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISoSVmXXJuc
Directly from that piece is all of Mussorgsky, Rimsky-Korsaskov, Ravel, then the rabbit hole gets _deep_.
AranaDiscoteca
All these people who don't like Eurocentric games... You... Can just do this. You're absolutely welcome to do this in your games. Take L5R out of Asia and put it in Africa. Base your wizards on 15th century Moorish culture. We're supposed to be taking and remaking these worlds for our own. A sourcebook existing is neat. You know what is AMAZING? YOU CREATING IT. That will make your friends feel so much more included than any book will
newsguycraigevans
This sounds pretty fucking awesome
eggmuffin
*Mythologies. Plural.
"African mythology" makes about as much sense as "European mythology."
Quite a bit less, actually, as it's a bigger place with more distinct peoples and languages, and a greater diversity of environments and lifestyles.
GigglingWordBearer
No argument, but 'european mythology' has been a thing in fantasy since Tolkien. Generic stasis fantasy has been an amorphous 'Europe? but magic' for a long time.
halfabubbleoff
Why this is imprtant:
One summer as a kid I found D&D in a hobby store. And voracious read every thing I could find in D&D.
In that one summer I went from a reading level two grades behind my peers to two grade levels ahead of my peers. In one summer.
Imagine all the kids who will pick this up and improve their lives because they improved their reading comprehension as well.
yuugian
Since it's based on existing mythology, i think they are going to need to include a pronunciation guide
Plus, i need that kickstarter/gofundme/whatever link. I've backed less ambitious content, i'm down for this one also
Duraxis
Yeah, as much as I fully endorse those and would love to try it, I feel like I’d butcher all the pronunciations
OliverOtter
! means click your tongue. N at the start of a word is pronounced like a cross between "in" "un" and your cell phone on vibrate sitting on a desk. Nyala (a big antelope) for example is NNNN yala. not Ny ala. M is similar, just M instead of N. X is more like Greek or Hebrew, clear the phlegm out of your throat. Xosa is CCCHHHHHosa. (Maybe I exaggerate a bit on that last one.)
Slimewire
That was an amazing explanation!
Zaphiston
Thanks! Just going to leave this here as an offering, so that I may return when I need to remember this bit of knowledge.
youreathing
Shouldn't be that hard tbh. If people can learn made up languages like Elvish and Klingon, they can learn real ones without an issue.
AranaDiscoteca
If you mess up pronouncing Klingon you might get a snotty nerd insulting you. If you mess up pronouncing a real language people have anxiety that the effort may come across as insulting. Which, honestly, unless the person is an ass it does not. You're trying.
yuugian
There are pronunciation guides for Elvish and Klingon. There are ones for English and Dutch as well. It being a real language is more of a reason for users to want to get the pronunciation correct, not less
youreathing
Yes, and there are pronunciation guides for lots of African languages and dialects as well. Saw lots of them decades ago when studying linguistics at Uni.
Arbitrarynamehere
I think I know why you don't think it's that hard lol
youreathing
Curious, and what might that be?
kiomadoushi
You are coming off as dismissive of the challenge to ensure accuracy and respect to real world languages, not reassuring new learners. This makes you seem like you don't carry respect. You might want to more carefully word your comments if this is not your intent...
youreathing
I think that's fair. That wasn't the intent. My impression from the person I was replying to was that they didn't think such guides already existed.
16807
Definitely needs a pronunciation guide, but don't be tempted to dumb it down. Go weird! This is your one chance to make a click consonant conlang that's not a kitchen-sink language.
youreathing
This is so good. To the point where I'm surprised it hasn't been done before.
ImgurPlz
Here's the source https://hoo.be/molombo
GozerTheGozerian
Sounds dope! Oft like to play an Ethopian Jewish character in Vampire the Masquerade named Tzila who had ties to the Solomonic Dynasty (as it was historically originally an Ethopian Jewish dynasty before its Christian conversion) or if sprat neonate former IDF soldier. BUT oft played the character in different TTRPGs and this setting would be perfect for her in a fantasy setting to play with a more tangible aspect to the origins/inspirations of the character.
ImgurPlz
Here's the source https://hoo.be/molombo
LustrousShadow
Sounds interesting, though I have two primary questions-- which I'd bother to actually look into if I had the chance to play DnD with any regularity.
1) I hope they're able to avoid the weird conservative bent that often crops up with things like this. Good vibes from this video, but I've been disappointed before.
2) I hope they don't commit *too* hard to keeping a 1:1 with existing classes. There's so much variety in mythology and culture, it'd be a shame to limit themselves in that way.
SadsPikkelson
You have to wonder how much of this is African mythology and how much is mythology. There are 3000+ tribes, each with its own stories and lexicon covering the entire continent. When D&D tried to do "the middle east" back in 3? it just became a bunch of stereotypes about genies/mummies and lazy co-opted Muslim symbols. It basically went "eastern" = Egypt and a generic sultanate circa 1200CE. It could be really cool if done right.
LustrousShadow
I get that, but like.. even Greek and European mythology consistently receive the same treatment, despite how much more of the spotlight they typically get. Certainly, they need to be handled with respect, but there are also severe limitation that come with conveying real-world cultures into media-- and that is made even more daunting when they are translated onto fictional people.
SadsPikkelson
Yeah, my comment wasn't meant to say "it's useless unless it represents every tribe". More like, he's projecting 1:1 names on to existing D&D classes which seems both lazy and a disservice to the "African Mythology". I hope it's more than that; that an effort is made to represent something uniquely pan-African, and not just a paint job over medieval European stereotypes. And also that it doesn't fall into the same lazy tropes of Zulu warriors and witchdoctors being all of Africa.
youreathing
1) Elaborate? As an old (non-conservative, non-white dude), I've never experienced this.
Saturniidae
Hoteps. Afrocentrists who are just as homophobic, transphobic, and maybe even more misogynist then their KKK counterparts but don't see the irony in their deeply colonial mindset. https://archive.attn.com/stories/10768/hotep-meme-shows-sexism-in-black-community
LustrousShadow
So, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm speaking as a left-leaning white guy. I'm talking about what appears to be an inherent risk any time we're dealing with the romanticization of the past-- obviously this is most common with the Abrahamic faiths, but even in other demographics that are typically extremely progressive, you'll find decently-sized pockets that are staunchly conservative or outright fascist. Many Odinists present an example for neopaganism, furries have a couple of (1/?)
LustrousShadow
(2/2) flavors. Even within the context of leftism, you'll find tankies supporting the CCP.
As far as groups that deal with the romanticization with African mythology-- which to be clear, I am not accusing the group from the post of doing, merely encouraging wariness-- I don't know of any examples dealing specifically with that, but the existence of Black Hebrew Israelites show that there is at least a similar precipice.
BorkBorkasson
Love this. There's so much untapped mythology and culture around the world that can make for amazing settings, and at the same time a way to learn more about them. Not to mention adding more diverse representation to the TTRPG world, to open it up and make it more welcoming.
PickleCzar
Now bring them all together.
TurkNJD
.......Kratos has entered the chat.....
secretdpp
https://rpggeek.com/geeklist/46007/africa-themed-rpgs
wisher1977
I seriously would have thought the warrior class would have been the Zulu tribe. I wrote a paper on Shaka Zulu in college and man, that tribe was equivalent to the Spartans in their day. True warriors.
Lampmonster
Running a homebrew campaign right now and using a modified version of the Sumerian pantheon for my gods.
HawkmanXLII
I think part of the reason more of this type of thing hasn't been done is big corporations (Hasbro owns DND) have been criticized for cultural appropriation and racism for this type of content in the past. Gotta be super careful. It's easier for them to create fantasy stuff than it is to base worlds off of actual people.
lostinthoughts
But why not get experts on the fields? African historian, cultural experts to give their feedback? It seems they take the easy route by remaking stuff already done or staying in their lane, and that's sad.
AranaDiscoteca
To be fair, remember when there was an expert on the field of shakuhachi and the one Japanese American tried to raise a stink about them? It doesn't particularly matter if they are culturally sensitive to the loud complaining section. And if they're loud and fast, it'll be labeled before anyone has time to go 'wait, actually no...' because of how much more clickable negative titles are.
HawkmanXLII
I agree. But Hasbro and companies like them have only one goal, and it's to make money. The only reason they care about whether or not we enjoy their product is because it can separate us from our money. It is not an artistic endeavor on their part. That's why fan content can be so much better sometimes, because it's created out of love, not greed.
ItTookMeAGoodWhileToComeUpWithAUsername
That’s also why I usually recommend people not to work in big corp when the job then resolves around something they enjoy or even love. It can quickly kill the joy for that because you have amazing ideas and passion but as you said $ is the only thing of importance.
lostinthoughts
Another point may be that they don't have to be as aggressive in marketing with rehashs and remakes (Disney, looking at you). I just think it's sad because it's a downward spiral. People complain that there's nothing new, but will complain about new things nonetheless. Argh.
HawkmanXLII
I'm a big consumer of Magic the Gathering and DND products, and I pay a lot of attention to what they (Hasbro) put out as a product. The general consensus from fans is that they push product after product without a lot of thought put into quality. It's more about quantity over quality. And they are squeezing too many things into too short a time period, and trying to convince us they're worth buying. It makes me sad, but it's also fine, because I'll work around their bullshit.
lapus
I'm thinking am after school club with this. I'm in an urban school.
DVSBSTrD
I've thought about making a version of Dark Souls based on Native American mythology.
Sasurau
This is the thing that's most exciting to me in modern fantasy. I'm fucking tired of bog standard fucking euro-centrism, and I say this as someone so white fuckin' mayo's spicy. I've seen this shit before, a million times. Diverse voices and viewpoints gives for more, richer stories, with more cultures, cultural mythologies, and takes. Give me more of this! I want stories I've not read before, instead of the same ones I've read a thousand times.
PoopShipDestroyer55
I keep saying there's no reason to remake euro mythic stories and race swap everyone. There's so many good stories from other cultures that just haven't been explored at all. People are starved for OC but no studios have the balls.
Skrudd
I wonder how the discussion about diversity will go with a project like this? Will they be held to the same standards or will it be okay for them to only represent african people since they are not white?
HawkmanXLII
Yes. I have a comment on this post explaining why I think that is.
lostinthoughts
What3Birds
As a kid, I had a book of myths and legends from all over the world, I remember many of them clearly although acknowledge that many of them (about half) were Greco-Roman. I still seek out and buy copies of the same book to give to people I know who are parents of 5-10 year olds.
Sonicschilidogs
Title please?
What3Birds
Myths and Legends by Anthony Horowitz
IUpvoteFuturama
Anansi: And for this campaign you too will steal Jaguar's balls.
CuteLukePatoot
Using your comment to dot.
unluckyandbored
I am so sick of Western European mythology and Tolkien-esque high fantasy being the "default". Like you said, there are so many cultures worth exploring. East Indian, Native American, Central/South American, African..but no. It's Western Europe, Japan, and the Norse and Greeks a distant third.
DoktorWeasel
Paizo has been moving in this direction with Pathfinder. They do have an African based continent. Previously they kind of relied on dated tropes when dealing with much of it, but have been working to improve. The Mwangi Expanse book from 2021 really leaned into African mythology and the many different cultures to show it as a vibrant place not just a generic 'exotic primitive jungle.' They've done similar with their Asia analog.
Sageypie
Oh yeah. They've done an awesome job on really fleshing out those other parts of the world since 2nd edition dropped. 1st edition was super light on a lot of stuff surrounding anything that wasn't the european inspired fantasy lands, but 2nd seems like they've really hammered down on dropping whole source books surrounding the different lands based on other world cultures.
Nobody7713
The Strength of Thousands adventure path set in the Mwangi Expanse was an excellent example of diverse representation done right.
DoktorWeasel
I haven't played or read it, but the premise sounded neat.
Nobody7713
I ran it for my group, it was very fun. It also included a ton of cool art drawn from African traditions and each part started with a little parable.
Guluzinyu
I based my campaign on Sumerian/Mesopotamian mythology. It works so well, and it's familiar because it established so much of human culture and mythological themes (that were later warped by copycats all around the world).
M4UsedRollout
I’ve been thinking about how cool a campaign set around the Mediterranean Sea in 1-2nd century BC would be. Include all the mythology that we know about, from Phoenician to Egyptian to Babylonian to the Bible. Start the players on a ship arriving in Ugarit and have them pick a temple to visit to thank the local god for a safe journey, only to have Baal or Anat send them on a quest that takes them all up and down the Levant.
Guluzinyu
But everything changed when the Sea Peoples attacked! Seriously, go for it. A lot of those mythologies were better preserved from later monotheistic/political erasure than subsequent mythologies were.
M4UsedRollout
Unfortunately not enough. Almost everything we know about the Canaanite pantheon comes from excavations in Ugarit. The leftovers of it in the Bible didn’t make a lot of sense until then.
There was probably a wealth of information about it in ancient Carthage, but Rome destroyed every brick and every paper in that city.
To this day almost everything we know about Carthage comes from Roman and Greek writing about them. And the Romans and Greeks HATED them.
Guluzinyu
Very true; I wish there were more, but am grateful we have as much as we do. The old northern European and new world mythologies, for example, have not fared as well due to colonialist erasure.