OceansRust
4552
285
6
#current_events #current_affairs #mildly_interesting
Aug 27, 2025 5:16 AM
OceansRust
4552
285
6
#current_events #current_affairs #mildly_interesting
Dyamonde
You'll have to find some good guys. For the past 50 years anything even near power in the US was at best "not completely shitty"
bekkayya
"the good guys will hold the reigns of power and the bad guys will be held accountable" that has literally never happened. Every liberal reconstruction has failed and landed us here. Only the actions YOU take will have any impact.
FajitaPrinceofAllMexicans
That last part is dripping with too much optimism. Trump is only the blistering symptom of the disease of conservativism.
HisRoyalMajestyKingV
Yet, still, they will all plead: "Ich habe lediglich Befehle befolgt"
DianNaoChong
And then the next Republican comes along and Parsons them to keep on going
woodworkerf
The Nürnberg defense is not a recognized defense. Fuck trumP!
ThatGuyFromJustSouthOfTheMiddleOfNowhere
dixxienormus
They will be easy to find and easy to convict.
OobedoobScoobyDoobyBenubi
MAGA will eventually be destroyed, the only question is how many good people they’ll take with them
Goldensands
Gods no. The question is how much of a planetary future we have left by the time the americans are done waiting around for the nazis to politely stop. The damage done to global climate and political relations is likely to ultimately cost millions, if not billions of lives.
cabalin
We need to catalog the names of every ice agent for this purpose if we never want this to happen again
4t0m1c4
Threatening to use law and order on those who claim to be the law and order, but are really lawless, is wasting words. Those with comments about Nazi Germany need to understand how many millions needed to die before "law and order" was selectively applied.
Dyamonde
Nürnberg only happened after Germany was bombed to rubble and conquered by foreign powers. It was foreigners that held those trials.
spangolio
fuck every last jerkoff who ever took a paycheck from ICE. permanent stain.
MadamPuddifoot
None of them were good people to begin with
AngurProne
I thought it might be fun to take a job w ICE and just be really terrible at doing the job. "Whoops we showed up 5 minutes before everyoneelse & scared away the targets" "Naw, he had his papers so we let him go" "He seemed like a good person so I let him go" :) I'd get fired for sure, but wouldn't care.
drGrafenberg
This is the way! Don’t go pretending ”illegal orders”.
Firestar002
I believe when we say “Fuck ICE” the ones doing what you are describing are the exception.
drGrafenberg
Just for clarification, what are the illegal orders?
KoalaOnTheJuice
The order to open fire on protestors is the most likely that comes to mind. Ignoring court orders trying to protect the constitution pretty critical too.
drGrafenberg
If the order is to kill, absolutely.
In other news, remember Ådalen.
tachyx
Working toward the Fuhrer means that it doesn't need to be specific, Nazis know what this is all about. That's how citizens get deported, renditioned, gassed and incinerated without the leader giving those exact orders.
drGrafenberg
Ok, got it.
gesel
Currently de facto US law is whatever Trump says it is. Once trump is gone, we might reassert pre-trump norms such as habeus corpus or posse comitatus etc or International laws such as asylum rights, etc. This would ceeate criminal liability for harm to those unlawfully kidnapped, sold into slavery, assaulted, or murdered under false color of law. The predicate is that just because Trump declared anyone suspected of being an immigrant (or disloyal) has no rights doesn't make it de jure.
drGrafenberg
I hear you, but the function behind illegal orders are aimed against international law, so US law does not matter. The international laws that are broken by illegal orders are few and quite defined. Not agreeing does not make it an illegal order.
I just wanted to know if there has been any for-real illegal orders. Because that would be huge!
gesel
International law is a fiction, compliance is entirely voluntary. Domestic law is also a fiction when the president is explicitly completely above it. For what it is worth (nothing) he has: https://lawshun.com/article/did-trump-break-international-law The DOJ won't charge him for any act, ever; as for the ICC... yah https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/imposing-sanctions-on-the-international-criminal-court/ So yes, for real illegal orders, but no, not huge, irrelevant.
drGrafenberg
Sorry that your country has decided to be irrelevant.
gesel
me too, buddy, me too.
UserNamesArentEasy
Nazi soldiers didn't get off by saying "I was just following orders" neither will these assholes.
MeestowKitty
These guys will get off in the same way, for the same reason. "It's time for peace, and we need them on our side to fight a bigger foe." In those days, it was the commies. Here its the fact that Dems are Republicans Lite with less hate, and they don't want the people rising up any more than the reds do, which is why they aren't doing their job and organizing is effectively to do so.
AVaguelyFamiliarUsername
They pretty much all got off by saying "I was following orders" a big bunch of them even ended up in the juridical system as cops and later in the Bundeswehr.
Tengenstein
Some of them even got jobs at NASA
IUpvoteFuturama
Because of the pressure to have a speedy but fair trial, the allies powers also failed to really understand the full spectrum of crimes that took place. For example the German art experts that directed the looting of Jewish property, were both undercharged and largely escaped any real punishment. Many of them were even able to claim art they had stolen for themselves after the war (PBS did an amazing two part Secrets of the Dead on Herman Göring's personal art agent).
IUpvoteFuturama
The Plunderer The life and times of a nazi art thief.
T3sl4co1l
Even those that were found guilty, incarcerated and such (...up to but not including hangings, obviously), were released within some years as the political capital to continue to hold them ran out, or certain deficiencies from the proceedings themselves became harder and harder to ignore.
T3sl4co1l
The inescapable conceit of such plans [attempting to punish those who did wrong] is, it ignores our very nature as humans. Some of us are just guilty as fuck. Not in the conventional meaning, of having committed an act, but in the sense of being fully capable and willing to do so, knowingly or not.
T3sl4co1l
In the grand scheme of things, punishment means nothing: it doesn't discourage that which is inevitable, and it just serves to divide the people, enforcing an authoritarian order. A higher order solution is necessary. A society-wide "punishment": the imposition that, yes, we really are this evil, everywhere, all the time, as humans; and it's how we teach this awareness, and practice it, on a day-to-day basis, and nationally and internationally, that defines our social morality.