turkletoon
267619
12339
410
Some perspective?
Matt Damon gave an interview saying that a pat on the butt isn't the same thing as rape and child molestation, and not all sexual harassment is equal. He's getting slammed by women online, but I totally agree with him. It sucks to be groped by a guy in a crowded bar, or whatever, but it's definitely not on par with someone being raped or a child being sexually assaulted in any way.
CrocodileDunphy
Part of the problem, it seems, is that we use one term (sexual assault) to cover everything from inappropriate touching to violent rape
chitterbug
It isn't the same, but it's still an unexceptable thing to do.
dvaonline
Just like there are degrees to crimes. But still is not okay. First rule of kindergarten, keep your hands to yourself
TheSpeakerOfTheHouse
Huh? First rule of kindergarten was don't go behind the rusty shed where the carers go to smoke during nap time.
Schmuck4hire
I saw some people talking about it, and I think what they found frustrating about it was the verbal message that if you got sexually 1/
Schmuck4hire
harassed, then "meh. Being raped is worse." 2/2
Skulties1
There are definitely levels
erinaceus
it's not the same. don't do it anyway.
itsabouttogetspicy
If you think people are saying it's the "same" then you are missing the point. The argument is that small interactions, and general 1
itsabouttogetspicy
attitudes about smaller forms of harassment and unequal treatment contribute to the larger problems. Not that hard to grasp. 2
SoMuchPooPooSon
I don't think that's the only reason people are upset with him, though.
TimeAndMemeLordOfGallifrey
DYLANLEE79
There are degrees. Yes. But there should be very low tolerance overall. A butt grab isn't rape, but it's also not acceptable.
frageelay
Who said it was?
justaguyinthebackrow
He literally said that.
Thuperduper
Right. It's all part of the problem. Obviously some of worse but none of them should be tolerated.
Darkspire
Seriously. Slapping someone isn't the same as shooting them. These people are nuts.
Mayonnaiseisainstrument
Nobody even argues that both things aren't exactly OK, people don't have to mention it every time.
Arsikere
it's slowly being equated to rape. radical feminism is warping definitions of things and it's not a good thing.
WeaponizedJerk
That was in his opinion. I guess all those people slamming him didn't bother reading for real.
TheFriendliestGiant
Eh, his comments are mostly just going to be used to try to undercut complainants; if it wasn't rape, why worry too much? Not helpful.
justaguyinthebackrow
No, he specifically said it should all be rooted out and not tolerated. U don't treat 1 who slaps a person like 1 who beats another to death
Kerro1981
Given the current climate his words were needed and ill advised.
DeepFriedAndSanctified
I agree with Kerro1981, his words were needed
WowSoSparkly
He basically pulled a #notallmen. STFU Matt Damon, you added nothing of value.
Secretsquid
Sometimes the truth hurts but it’s better than living in a lie
Justalobstercowboy
Half the NFL is going to sue the other half if he's wrong
TheJokeWrecker
Good game, good game.
jalbs2184
Cabronmalisimo
Took one for the team...
lolzomg123
Nah. Hollywood is going to make a movie rescuing him from the clutches of the hateful (since it's not neutral) internet.
Arsikere
interesting what has turned out to be the current counter culture
Kerro1981
Go on! What is the current counter culture
Arsikere
moderation
spetcnaz
He is absolutely right. It's just we live in a knee jerk times and people don't even analyze or want understand what they are reading.
spetcnaz
Nothing controversial in what he said. In fact it is a no brainer. Crimes have severity levels for a reason. A fist fight does not carry the
spetcnaz
same punishment as mass murder for a reason.
EyeSpyABreathtakingPerson
Needed is more important... Plus he's Matt Damon so he can get away with I'll advised.
Datsinginguy
...until the next time we have to save him. If there are any feminists he’s screwed.
AaronGodgers
Alyssa Milano and Minnie driver sure like to buy into the idea that only men can commit crimes on women too.
origamivagina
Well said!
PimpernelBlue
Completely agree, and it's a shame he isn't being given the benefit of the doubt.
Rosfmmmhzdrozzley
Yeah I totally agree. Good way to end a career, but who else is going to get this idea out there on such a big platform?
rockjock29
So he's not the hero we need? But the one we deserve?
ialwayssaywhyiupvotestuff
Kinda sorta just neither right now.
SmoothSaline
He's Matt-Man
JohnCena6969
Well his best friend is Batman
yomahnn
ohmegatron
yomahnn
reineseele
He is the hero who would break the countries back by being so very very costly to be rescued...but we do it anway cause MATT effin DAMON,
yomahnn
Wellthatwasweird
ddet1207
Wouldn’t it be the other way around? His comment was needed, but based on the way “we” reacted, “we” don’t deserve him.
tweakbz
Sounds like he'll need to be rescued... Again!
TheVampireDante
Until we have to go rescue him from somewhere again. Pretty sure it'll be a Feminazi Sarlacc pit this time though.. Better call Boba Fett.
tzxAzrael
actually the other way around; we don't deserve any heroes, but we need someone with a voice of reason nonetheless.
cardboardwhales
No, he’s just Matt Damon
websurfintime
arbsbuhpuh
I heard he's fucking Matt Damon
TehButternaut
JBib
Fucking gold.
ThePizzaGuyOfJustice
Or is he... Batt Damon
WokeenFenix
PutInaThumbnPulledOutAPlum
If I go in this booth and catch him in my shirt, can... can I keep him..?
Wolfmanwolf
BackwardsCat
Sordiy
I have watched so much anime but this scenes laughing feels and looks so real for some reason
ReactAndiSueYou
Source?
TechnicalDrift
Sound of the Sky. Good show, highly recommended.
ItsRealTalk
His words were dismissive & in the current climate implied that he didnt think it was worthwhile to call out sexual harassment on all levels
maskedfox007
You didnt read all his comments. He said it's important to call it out on all levels
ChipCheese
The problem is the current climate is getting out of hand, so more words like his are needed. The West had turned into 'The Crucible'.
YouAreNotARobot
That's not even true. We're living through a period of change in society. It doesn'toften happen this fast. Normally change is slow, and /1
YouAreNotARobot
lines are drawn based on expeeoence and reason. Right now, change is reactionary and being drawn based on this tsunami of sexual /2
YouAreNotARobot
harrasment accusations. We need to have a conversation about what mistakes are worth ruining lives over. Does a pat on the ass warrant /3
YouAreNotARobot
being publically shamed, maybe get out of college or fired? I would say no, but in the court of public opinion these things are being /4
supersaiyansenpai
People could just keep their hands to their damn selves...
AuBoss
Ok then. And lets all just not have any sex ever again then....
TheSpeakerOfTheHouse
Pretty sure that's the goal. They can't get us via the "it's a sin" route, or the "you'll catch aids" route, so now they're trying this.
NurseyMcNursepants
Sorry, who? The church? So confused.
TheSpeakerOfTheHouse
You.
Nyxish
He’s right. It’s not the same thing, not the same level. That doesn’t mean it’s ok for men to touch women sexually without permission.
TossacointoyourWitcherOvalleyofplenty
He literally said that.
abundantbadgers
well yeah, the pat on the butt might be sexual harassment, rape and molestation is MUCH WORSE than harassment. It's assault.
BunnyliciousBubblegum
That's a good point. There should be a few more degrees, but harassment and assault are not the same so we do have some separation.
DonnaNobleInTheLibrary
Law makes that distinction, the mob doesn't.
NotTodayNotYesterday
While that's true, assaulters do use that line of thinking to defend their actions. 'So what if I touched you? Least I didn't hold you down
NotTodayNotYesterday
and rape you. Don't make such a fuss.' Plus, it's not exactly best to say to someone who has been harassed that others have it worse.
bout2callbovice
A pat on the butt is also assault. Any unwanted touching, by law, is technically assault.
ArdentSlacker
Yeah. It's why he's an idiot here. Yes, it's not the same, but both should get you thrown the fuck out. A punch and a gunshot aren't same 1+
ArdentSlacker
2/2 but you will still go to the same courthouse in the same handcuffs. The only difference is how many christmases you miss.
sweetnaivety
isn't touching someone else without their permission considered battery? even spitting on someone is considered so I think.Assault is threat
sweetnaivety
But I live in California, I don't know if that's just a Cali thing.
minabear
And they are treated differently too. Rape puts you in jail, and harassment gets you fired
SwagicalYololord
Fired and publicly shamed so that you will never work again.
KartFnocker
Do you have examples of the never working again part? It's too early to tell for the current crop (Spacey/Franken/etc)
TheFragnatic
Really famous people can't be the control point. Fame does weird things, either they are shamed forever, or people completely ignore their
TheFragnatic
actions (caitlyn jenner for example)
abundantbadgers
Right exactly. I'm not sure where people DON'T see them as different things except internet outrage, which is generally overblown anyway.
mostlysalt
Imgur should know by now that Tumblr and Twitter should not be viewed as representative of the general populous. It's echo chambers.
ThisIsLiterallySatan
Harassment, too, can get you jailed if it’s reported. And fined.
llrgrlnd
Technically any non consensual touches are assault. Calling names and talking dirty would be harassment.
realistichorsegonadbehavior
Well, I see your point, but I wouldn't phrase it that way. Getting groped is most certainly assault. We don't need to diminish one crime-->
realistichorsegonadbehavior
-->'s shittiness just to get across that another one is worse.
CruorDragonblood
Unless the definition is different for the 'sexual' category, any contact is assault. Harrassment is words. Just clarifying.
stiner282
Ah look, a green dot!
INoLongerCareBoutThisName
I agree. They are still assholes and you have a right to feel violated. But it isn’t the terror and fear a woman goes through being raped
quattroformaggix4
Precisely
2thfxr
You were that kid in school that got in a fight and lost then threatened to sue
abundantbadgers
DaDisser
?????
daftthoughts
Not disagreeing, but this argument is used way too often to reduce the impact harassment has on the long-term, and how closely related >
daftthoughts
> it is to rape. People who sexually harass are MUCH more likely to be rapists than people who never do. And frequent harassment can wear >
daftthoughts
> the mind down dramatically if it happens enough, as much as a one-time rape. Similarly, a rape victim isn't always necessarily >
daftthoughts
> traumatized either, that doesn't make the rape more acceptable.
mostlysalt
Well yeah, it's not a harrassment/not harassment kind of thing, it's a question of severity in all cases. But no kind is acceptable.
abundantbadgers
Oh absolutely. Sexual harassment in any form is unacceptable; it is a tell tale sign of a very hostile/toxic environment that needs to be
everthustodeadbeats
Nobody said they are the same but one perpetuates the cultural climate for the other to continue. All of it is unacceptable.
freesnowcone
Stealing someone’s lunch isn’t the same as stealing their car but it’s still stealing and it’s still inappropriate. Keep hands to yourself
KingKrown
This all or nothing mentality is fucking stupid.
bout2callbovice
OP is putting words in people’s mouths, what was said was that “the micro can lead to the macro”
bout2callbovice
And posts like OPs is exactly the problem. It downplays harassment and dissuades victims from coming forward because it’s “not as bad”
AreThoseMyPants
It downplays harassment in relation to rape, which I believe is his point. No-one's advocating for not reporting less-than-rape harassment.
TarisaLea
Matt Damon is 100% correct.
Mayonnaiseisainstrument
Gropping or rapping is like getting slapped on cheek or getting nose broken with a fist, who the fuck would even say that's equal bad?
ArdentSlacker
Yeah and these two cups of poison aren't equal, but you shouldn't drink either one...
WLAFadeaway
He kind of lost me when he was putting Louis CK on the not so bad side. Al Franken is on the not so bad side. Louis CK not so much.
WeaponizedJerk
It was definitely sexual harassment, but I wouldn't call it being as bad as assault or rape.
Z123Ruckus
How many more billions are we willing to spend to rescue Matt Damon?
Azolphion
Got raped, got molested by family. Been catcalled and groped. Guess which memory can send me into panic attacks?
WoolyBullyDoesNotRhymeWithSully
Blood is thicker than water, we'll be your family. You'll be the sibling I never had. Fck with family, fck with me/us.
mufasa1028
The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb
janeCosmosdog
Yep, molested as child, had my tits/arse groped as a grown up. Polar opposites, the first deeply damaging the second simply....nothing much.
Azolphion
Right? Like, catcalling and ass touching are DEFINITELY douchy, but not at all on the same level.
UrKungFuNoGood
yeah I fucking hate this shit. Man I'm fifty and I still have to remember my molestor every. fucking. time. this subject comes up... :/
DarkAngelWarlord
get a Dummy with his face on it and stab the shit out of it
Azolphion
This is a good idea
OfficialCommentFromCorporate
...The answer may surprise you!
bringbakfirefly
Same here. Only one that still lingers after all these years.
quattroformaggix4
Halle-fucking-lujah! Other people saying it. Somehow they don’t figure it’s all interconnected? I’m seriously pleased someone else sees it.
AdrianAmato
1 Everyone's experience is different, though. For most people that's true, but for me it isn't. I was molested repeatedly by a friend as a
AdrianAmato
2 child, and I was groped by a middle-aged man who asked me if I wanted "some sex" in high school. The memories of the latter are more vivid
SerenePrincess013
Same here. Raped by step-brother, molested by step-father for 3 years. I'll take a pat on the ass any day, over the flashbacks.
immarule34alloverya
The one where you were captured by the CIA?
Aibell125
The Whole 'me too' FB statuses drove me insane. 'Me too - I was whistled at on the street' um what? F you
AdrianAmato
3 and scar me much more deeply than the memories of being molested. Though, admittedly, I'm in the minority.
TennoOperator
Is it when you put peanut butter on your dick and you dog licked it off?
neo316
CheerfulNihilisma
Same
Arsikere
seeing Episode One?
Misfire5150
That one time you missed a step going down the steps and barely caught the hand rail?
Azolphion
Sometimes I don't even catch the rail and then I have a bruised ass for a few days
Azolphion
Are you kidding? That's not a memory, that's a Tuesday! And a Wednesday, and a Thursday.... I'm very uncoordinated.
derrymerbles
Wow. I’m always curious about why people get downvotes. But this one will remain a mystery to me
TwoEyedWilly
Well, since you asked... the argument from the other side is that harassment is violence too... emotional violence. I agree with Matt Damon.
quattroformaggix4
The argument is sexual harassment is wrong & additionally, evoking that same power dynamic is detrimental to survivors of sexual assault, as
quattroformaggix4
well as eroding the confidence, boundaries & perception & expectation for personal safety of the victims of harassment.
derrymerbles
I’m sorry for your experiences
lilmookie
The time you dropped a jar of peanut butter on your little toe?
ImperialWatch
The main issue is if it's repeated or accepted in a workplace setting.
Datsinginguy
Catcalled...?
Datsinginguy
Not to downplay here. So sorry for the horrible things done to you. Especially by family. There is no excuse for that. Ever.
quattroformaggix4
....he says after a not-funny-enough joke to make the downplaying worthwhile
XoxSmotpokerxoX
Catcalls = whistled at..... apparently it is not a compliment and is considered sexual harassment
everettscott
"apparently". Im a guy and the idea of doing that to a woman seems dumb. Were not cartoons.
itsfurysfury
I'm a guy seen my friends do that,I cringe, I tell them that dude that's not cool you're making people uncomfortable
Sc00ba5teeve
I was out drinking with a bunch of oilfield roughnecks and one of the new guys catcalled a woman walking down the street. The crew gave 1/2
XoxSmotpokerxoX
I'm a guy too, who has been whistled at by women, not the end of the world
LoquaciousDude
Everyone is different I suppose
itsfurysfury
The problem is group of strange burly men, whistling a single woman in a strange place. Wouldn't that make you uncomfortable?
FiftyShadesOfBroccoli
Well, of course. That's why rapists (ideally) go to jail, whereas gropers merely lose their job after several coworkers report them. But...
FiftyShadesOfBroccoli
please don't defend the latter with "hey, it wasn't rape after all, he was just copping a feel". There are consequences for that too.
FiftyShadesOfBroccoli
I mean, it's like pointing out that homicide isn't murder, assault isn't even homicide & theft is even more harmless in comparison. Yeah...
FiftyShadesOfBroccoli
sure, but can there please be consequences for all these crimes and can we teach kids not to commit any of them? 'Cause that'd be great.
kayzaaay
This, a thousand times this. I think Matt Damon was trying to say "It's all relative" but he and OP ended up minimizing the whole thing.
nomonjoka
But isn’t Damon’s & Afflecks dismissal of Weinstein’s “harmless” harassment why he was emboldened and enabled to then assault & rape?
minabear
Get your logic & thoughtfulness off of Imgur.
nomonjoka
I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
hblb229
As a victim of abuse, I agree. It's hard for me sometimes to hear someone seemingly equate the two, but I have to remember that one 1/?
hblb229
Person's worst experience is still their worst experience, even if it's different from mine. There are shades to everything, including 2/?
hblb229
Emotion and internal response to/effect of abuse. It's not for me or anyone else to say that someone isn't entitled to their feelings 3/?
hblb229
in response to abuse, no matter where the abuse falls on the spectrum. The only relevance of the spectrum is the severity of societal 4/?
hblb229
punishment that should be applied to the perpetrator. 5/5
minabear
Nobody is arguing it’s the same, but neither should be fucking tolerated.
Brutsarge
Agreed. No one suggested they are even close. But neither should be tolerated. Period.
Skulties1
I think there is also an issue of repercussions. The punishment should fit the crime
minabear
And it does. As seen in my other comments: Harvey whatshisfuck isn’t in jail. He’s been fired. If you sexually harass your colleague, you 1
minabear
2 will be terminated. If you rape your colleague, you will (hopefully) GO TO JAIL.
Skulties1
Well I'd like to see the rapists face trials. (Weinstein and simmons)
AVoiceOfReason
Name one person who says it should be tolerated.
bringbakfirefly
Yes they are arguing it's the same. They are labeling and calling for the same punishment.
Rifneno
Nobody is arguing it should be tolerated. What a retarded thing to say.
turkletoon
They ARE arguing that it's the same. Several Hollywood women, including Alyssa Milano.
GnomeDeGuerre
Perhaps you could find the quotes where they claim that?
minabear
Nope. She explicitly said “the micro leads to the macro.” Twist it all you want, but that’s verbatim
itsfurysfury
No one's arguing that, crystal clear they are different, point is this 'minor' thing is part of the bigger problem.
bout2callbovice
Incorrect. They’re arguing that all of these incidents contribute to a culture that silences victims, which they definitely do.
bout2callbovice
Saying things like “it’s not as bad as getting raped” makes victims think “well I guess I shouldn’t bother reporting this, it isn’t serious”
minabear
Also I’d like to add: harassment and rape are treated differently too. Rape can mean prison. Harassment can get you fired.
eanfledtheelf
It isn't the same, but the attitude of "it's ok if I smack her ass" is just a less aggressive form of the attitude of "it's ok if I grab
Spaceous
Yeah that's pretty much the essence of it, the worst part of it is that it's used as power play if used in a professional setting.
eanfledtheelf
her tits" which is a less aggressive form of the attitude that says "it's ok if I fuck her, even though she doesn't want to be fucked".
eanfledtheelf
Touching people without their permission escalates.
kayzaaay
This. Saying "It's all relative" doesnt prevent the guy(22yo) who goosed me(14yo) from violating an 11yo a few years later (he went to jail)
spaceasaurusrex
Feminist and lawyer. My concern with the #metoo movement is the lack of due process and proportionality.
2AlakHul4U
Also lawyer and I agree
Mrblump
Proportionality needs to be the law of the land or witch hunts will start up.
MagicSquid
Too late.
ManCalledHorseWithNoName
Unwanted physical contact is never appropriate.
StarryGrapes
Like many are saying context matters, but when I was walking to [all-girls] high school, a guy groped my ass. Sure, it could've been worse
ChipCheese
Lot of people touch me on the subway. Who do I sue? You don't even want to know about football games.
bringbakfirefly
True but sometimes signals get missed, an attempt made, shot down then people learn and walk away.
StarryGrapes
But I think the bar scene & unrequited attraction is overshadowing the butt pat scenario
AuBoss
And how are people to know what is unwanted. Obviously rape is but other touching isn't. Yes there has been a lot of bad stuff but 1/2
AuBoss
2/2 we still need to develop sexual relationships and if you can't act on how you feel then how does that work? A mistaken touch isn't rape
thelazyninja
"How are people to know what is unwanted." The answer is social cues. And like anything, they can be both taught and learned.
AuBoss
Yes and social cues are misinterpreted every single day for a variety of reasons.
gamblingpoet
The issue is this: Yes, rape and sexual harassment are different. But if we start saying "well at least she didn't get raped" when someone
BhawbTheMagnificent
Context matters too. In high school I (male) had my ass grabbed by a few girls, not a big deal. If that happened at work its a problem tho.
nomonjoka
Exactly. Social situations vs work are very very different. Power issue that is absolutely used to oppress women.
minabear
And (as I’ve mentioned in other comments), assault vs rape is also treated differently. No one is going to jail. They’re just being fired.
Strasburg6592
As Alyssa Milano tweeted: the macro begins with the micro. In this case I'm with the feminists 100%. Hands off, period. It's not that tough!
bringbakfirefly
That's not what's happening. Basically they are trying to paint every butt smack or kiss like Harvey Weinstein.
NurseyMcNursepants
Who? Who is "they"?
DrKriegersClone
Well if its in the workplace, even the low end stuff is worthy of firing.
nomonjoka
“Every butt smack or kiss” that nonchalant attitude is exactly the problem.
Fisran
No one is saying that, all we're saying is we shouldn't ruin the lives of people because they touched someone's butt.
nomonjoka
But they should be fired. You agree with that?
Fisran
Seeing as how almost all of them did it to their employees, definitely yes.
Fisran
And I got a lot of dislikes, guess ruining peoples lives if they touch a butt is ok. I'll go try to sue the women & gay guys who touched me.
Fisran
Or jerked off in a private room with someone ( Louis CK deserves to be forgiven, the dude literally asked for permission first )
gamblingpoet
is sexually assaulted, and we don't take sexual harassment seriously because it wasn't as bad as being molested, it doesn't fix anything.
Jimbo1956
No, equating being groped with rape minimizes rape.
ThankGoodnessYourHerePrematureEjaculationMan
Thank you for commenting! I was confused as to why some people were so upset. Your comment helped me see the situation in a way I had not
ThankGoodnessYourHerePrematureEjaculationMan
Thought of. I can see now how that way of thinking can lead to not taking smaller acts of sexual assault as seriously as they should be.
ThankGoodnessYourHerePrematureEjaculationMan
And seeing most offenders start small and work their way up that could be very damaging!
InDubiousBattle
This. We should be able to say "one isn't as bad as the other" AND say "neither should happen." But we have to be careful, especially (1/2)
InDubiousBattle
"meh, who cares?" HAS been the norm for any complaint for so long. (2/2)
GeddyLee2112
Isn't sexual assault different than sexual harassment?
gamblingpoet
Legally? Yes. Sexual harassment can be asking your coworker about her sex life. Nothing illegal in terms of the law, but in a work place
gamblingpoet
environment, it usually violates the corporate policy. But saying "that isn't bad as assault" is wrong, because you are comparing two awful
gamblingpoet
things. Harassment can lead to depression, substance abuse, loss of income, etc. It is a terrible event. Just say both are bad and terrible
PikaChunin
It's not wrong. They objectively differ in severity. In the same way you can't say alcohol and krokodil are equally dangerous.
gamblingpoet
Damon's close ties to Weinstein shouldn't be ignored. He should have just said "We need to fire everyone and try again" and let someone else
gamblingpoet
deal with the question of sexual assault vs misconduct vs rape.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Exactly! This is why Damon's being called out. Everyone knows that harassment isn't as bad as rape, I've never even seen someone argue /1
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
that they're the same. But harassment is still leading to women being scared at work, being pushed out of their jobs, and not to mention /2
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
rapists use harassment as a tool to find victims. Abusers always push boundaries to find people who can't stand up to them, and then when /3
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
they find them, they move on to worse. So a culture where harassment is "no big deal" is a culture that enables rapists. And it's a /4
GodEmperor0fMankind
Yeah I've been slapped/patted on the ass by random strangers. Definitely not even close to being raped or actually molested.
LeonardKleinrock
Grab-ass at concerts use to be a normal thing by girls. Girls love to grab guy-butt. Had it happen to me all the time. Whatever.
7thor8thcaw
My take was he was saying it was still wrong, just it wasn't nearly the same thing.
Walatalalaw
Yeah, a bit like theft and murder. Both unacceptable but clearly not the same, and needing different repercussions
7thor8thcaw
Exactly. Severity is important. I'd rather be robbed than murdered. Rather have my ass grabbed than raped.
Splinthar
Its almost like sex crimes or harassment come in a spectrum of offenses... and are not binary.
L4dead2
I've been slapped on the butt by guys while playing football
raidleadergutts
Seeing some football footage, guys slapping the asses of their teammates seems to be a common theme in football.
potatothegreat
Someone grabbed my butt once at the beach (im a guy) and i was just kind of like "oh" never saw who did it. Agreed. Not the same.
Gasnia
Does it haunt your nightmares?
potatothegreat
I have some weird ass dreams but never about anyone grabbing my ass
ImWeezering
I have too and I’m a guy. I just used to work at an olds home. Old grandmas grope a lot... (not just the ass)
Luciuslucullus
I agree, but pats are one of the few things that happen to both men and women and thus ought to get some time in public discussion
Anuglierlucyliu
There are definitely degrees. I think the counterarguement though had to do with the slippery slope of accepting and normalizing the (cont)
Anuglierlucyliu
Small stuff which leads to accepting and normalizing bigger and bigger stuff. Women are trying to crack down all ALL forms of harrassment...
Anuglierlucyliu
And assault regardless of the degree to show we shouldnt accept any degree of harrassment or assault as normal. I don't think anyone ...
Anuglierlucyliu
Believes rape and ass grabbing are the same, but there will be some people who downplay ass grabbing too much. And it continues the cycle.
iamthemachine
I was grabbed when I was with my fam in a crowd during new years downtown london. I was 14. I was raped when I was 7 so I knew that it was-
iamthemachine
A wrong thing to do to someone but it was from a family member...and i was too afraid to tell my parents a stranger was touching me then..
iamthemachine
I can see why people scream it isn't the same/its just as bad but unwanted contact is unwanted contact. The say rape cuz its a big buzz word
foxwithtools
My ass is dope and I like when peeps slap it, dunno
goodolechefmike
Happens a lot in a small kitchen were hands are down then there is someoned butt.
NegentropyX
I (a guy) had my ass pinched by an unknown woman on a bus in Rome. I can’t in good conscience put it in the same category as being raped.
itsmydayoff
(Guy here) It’s happened to me at clubs... no big deal
wtfpenguin
(girl here) it was probably me, I've done this in the past and made it look like someone else did it
samsonguy920
Just like there's a difference between slapping someone being fresh and shooting them. These days more folks seem to think the latter >
samsonguy920
> is more warranted.
NinjaCongo
And in related news, the pope has turned out to be Catholic.
sulfuratus
How can you possibly know if you've never been raped. Clearly you're making this up as you go along. /s
Jaboticaba
I played baseball too
Iloveanonymityandilovebeingnoticed
My 2year old son accidentally touched a teen's butt while in line today, the girl grabbed her ass like she'd been violated. I thought 1/2
Iloveanonymityandilovebeingnoticed
I was going to have to defend my son from some ridiculous accusations as to his intent.
Crenshaw4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbKZtg2fG0w
runswithchickens
Same here
Janusha
Would you like to live in a world where a pat on the ass and sexual compliments were... Illegal ?
sweetnaivety
yes, please!
Janusha
I dont actually think you do.
sweetnaivety
Why? I don't want anyone even touching me at all, let alone in a sexual way. Unwanted sexual touches and comments should be illegal.
Janusha
Most people, even pretty girls, manage to get through the day without feeling oppressed.
sweetnaivety
Just last week my Mom's friend was watching me gamble, and some strange guy walked by and grabbed her side and made a weird noise, the -
sweetnaivety
(2) security guard nearby saw it happen and asked her, she told him and they sent security after him, caught him,took him in and booked him-
sweetnaivety
(3)checked the security cameras and got it on tape,police came and he got taken to jail!It was pretty awesome.But yeah,not nearlyasbadasrape
tresfab333
What is this straw man nonsense? People aren't taking issue with the 'groping isn't as bad as rape' part, if you actually read t/ arguments.
itsabitchilly
Still not cool though
WayTooStupid
thanks for the confirmation xD
DarwinGreen5
Only the Sith deal with absolutes.
CrushBug
And I am a dude! /agree
hertta
https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/12/06/the-warlock-hunt/
YourFriendlyNeighborhoodManic
Hmmm i wonder why they feel insecure about that
ZZhillTopper
I've been slapped on the butt before ... I'm a dude. I wouldn't hit someone or go to court over it but it is still pretty rude.
MisleadTruth
I've had both happen, not the same.
GreatAndMightyCabbage
As someone who was actually molested as a child, I can say it sucks. I'm a guy. The molester was a guy. It happens to us too
Ytsurt
I had a nasty drunk chick grab my dick once. It was very uncomfortable and unwarranted but I wasn’t about to cry rape.
aap71
sorry...i was drunk and horny
iwishjtmoneywasstillavailableitsmyoldvideogamemoniker
Same here, unwelcome, uncomfortable but not rape.
billingsworthswagamuffin
Man, you don’t think that it’ll be weird but totally weird. I’ve been grabbed on 3 separate occasions, once while crossing a street.
toasteheh
I once worked as a nurses aide surrounded by women. Had my butt pinched red some days. Never complained which is why they kept going I guess
SociallyAwkwardCanadianMoose
Did they call you sweet cheeks too?
Gasnia
Making a fuss of it might have made it worse as in they'll do it more because they know it would bother you.
AsheLake
Stick up for yourself.
toasteheh
I didnt mind it.
AsheLake
It's not really harassment, then, is it?
toasteheh
Did I say it was anywhere?
raidleadergutts
Maybe you should have, because not minding it made them think it was totally ok to sexually assault you.
[deleted]
[deleted]
toasteheh
Yes I was perfectly fine with them "sexually assaulting" (really?) me. Why is it wrong if I'm fine with it?
andriajeanne
I backhanded the guy who grabbed my ass be cause he deserved it. I didn’t report it, didn’t make a stink, but responded swift consequences.
Mayonnaiseisainstrument
If it only happend once then that's probably a better way to punish than reporting it and he might learn a lesson and not do it again.
PutInaThumbnPulledOutAPlum
That's a more suitable reaction than waiting 25 years to then sue him publicly.
yomahnn
As a man, I completely agree with that consequence. The turd deserved it.
MoreAshyThanLarry
Good for you. Many such men expect no consequences, you showed him different.
Fishticuffs
I'm a dude, and I got groped by drunk women all the time when I worked at a bar. I guess I should have backhanded them all.
AGROOVYASSASSIN
No, you could go to jail for that. But there is nothing wrong with a round house kick to the face. But only if you say "road house" after
LuffyFett
I have feared the consequences since I was a kid and learned about sexual harassment. Now it is holding me back from taking action with 1/2
LuffyFett
Women, especially now that all the lawsuits are going to all the power players in the different industries, the feminism movement, etc. 2/2
Kimberoo
I've done that to strangers because I thought they were my husband. Quickly followed by an embarrassed apology. Usually laughed off.
tresfab333
....That's not an equivalent situation to someone deliberately groping someone they're not married to/in a relationship with?
Datsinginguy
RAPE! RAAAAAAAPE! Arrest this woman! Jk I get it.
graceinsheepsclothing
Maybe don't pat your husband until you're sure it's him?
sumowoman
If you slap enough assess you'll eventually slap also your husband's ass.
Gasnia
Because guys don't care as much. It's something funny.
RaptorVag
If a dude did grabbed me thinking I was his wife, I'd laugh, being grabbed by pervy mcperv just cause is when I'd react angrily.
ThisIsLiterallySatan
Ehhhh. I’m a dude. I had a girl grab my shoulders and whisper “hey sexy” in my ear. I almost turned around and punched her in the face. Not-
ThisIsLiterallySatan
- really a fan of being touched by people I don’t know. Maybe I’m weird.
SexualConsent
I honestly would have just laughed my ass off. Not discrediting your experience, but it's kinda funny
jsmi813
Okay but imagine if you were 5’4 and the person touching you was 6’ and twice as strong. That’s why it’s more of an issue for women imo
jsmi813
But I’m not saying it isn’t equally as bad when it happens to men, it’s just far more intimidating for women - my opinion, as a 5’4 woman
Minnakht
Still rude and something you have a right to be upset about, just rather petty as crimes go.
theyar
But I also have a right to say, yeah that's happened to me, and I laughed it off, so get over it.
SuperHir0
Yeah. I'd rather let it slide or give them a talking to (depending on the situation) than call the police and claim sexual assault/harassmnt
Complexwren
yes but I still think it should be a punishable offense. just not as harsh as rape or molestation.
eanfledtheelf
It is a punishable offense. A misdemeanor, but punishable.
saintjocks
rude yes that is the correct term, it is rude to do so, but not rape
newaccountforfolders
It is bad, and indecent, but not a crime. It should be corrected in a work place, but not past normal punishment. 3 strikes, you're out.
quattroformaggix4
It is a crime. It is literally a crime. Yet, this is the one crime where we think it’s reasonable to demand clemency. Like you just did. FFS
eanfledtheelf
It is a crime. Touching someone sexually without their consent is sexual assault. Not rape...not molestation...but at that doorstep.
quattroformaggix4
Reading these comments above yours makes it abundantly clear why people think this is normal, excusable behaviour.
tresfab333
This whole post is a fucking nightmare. No wonder non-consensual sexual contact & harassment/assault is so widespread.
J0hnm13
Maybe you're just being a bitch about nothing, maybe the butt-patter is pushing his perv limits. Context is always important.
quattroformaggix4
What a cretinous thing to say. How would you feel saying this to a kid being butt patted regularly by their teacher?
J0hnm13
You need to learn to read because that's the bad context in which the perv is pushing limits.
Skulties1
Perhaps even worse than petty, but still no comparison to rape
VoidofStatic
A few degrees higher than petty, a ton lower than the latter.
onikame
Deserves a good UGH, then moving on
Slindrin
Like an adult
VoidofStatic
Or calling them out on it and tell the person to never do that again or you'll punch them in the throat next time.
CongratsYouAreHereNow
many girls have slapped/grabbed my ass in bars. i'm a dude and i certainly never asked for it and didn't always enjoy it, but it's 1/2
CongratsYouAreHereNow
really inconsequential for me as a man because i could have taken any of those girls down if i wanted to. i get that a girl has to be 2/3
CongratsYouAreHereNow
more scared that a guy could physically dominate her, but you're generally not going to be raped in the middle of a crowded bar
Regdor
Have you tried slapping any of their asses back?
ThisIsLiterallySatan
Followed outside and raped in the parkinglot? Maybe, though.
humbledham
Mmm, there are things called drugs, bathrooms. I've heard it happen.
UpvoteFairy3001
If someone slapped my ass, I'd slap them back. A slap on the ass is nothing to press charges about imo
SexualConsent
Hah! Then, she'll just charge you and suddenly you're completely at fault
quattroformaggix4
You are presuming that a female was the initial butt slapper
LuffyFett
KZDM
It sure is if it wasn't consentual
quattroformaggix4
I have slapped many a man back & offered to bite a dick off that was shoved in my face as I knelt down at work. But not everyone I work with
UpvoteFairy3001
I've had my ass slapped in Walmart and bars/clubs, never at work though
quattroformaggix4
has the same gumption, & they shouldn’t fucking have to. If I ever bought charges because of sexual assault/harassment, it’d be to protect
quattroformaggix4
those that freeze in response to sexual aggression & internalise it. Andd cause it’s actually fucking illegal! Its also bad for staff morale
quattroformaggix4
It’s still illegal. Duck, jaywalking is a crime but assault is ‘petty’?
Minnakht
Someone in the comments used the word I was missing - "misdemeanor." Illegal, yes. Harm done... very little, honestly. Not none, but little.
quattroformaggix4
Who are you to measure it?! My ex girl was serially molested as a child & every misdemeanour incident sent her to the depths of depression.
quattroformaggix4
She was AGAIN suicidal cause a cab driver thought it harmless to grope her & refused to return her credit card without a kiss! Fuck that.
tresfab333
...I'm sorry, but who are you say the effects of sexual harassment are negligible? We have reams of psychological studies to the contrary
Minnakht
So are we talking about a single isolated incident of a butt pat or prolonged harassment, possibly using more severe methods?
Minnakht
Effects of sexual harassment are definitely not negligible, I just think (possibly wrongly) that harassment consists of smaller elements