Mars is a terrible destinasjon for human habitation. No atmosphere to speak of, no magnetosphere, dim sunlight and a weak gravity makes it living there viable only on a short-term basis, underground.
All the talk of living there is founded on nothing but romanticism.
Those who want to be serious about the subject of settling another planet will instead look to Venus. It is closer, with a stronger gravity, a magnetosphere, abundant solar energy and a dense atmosphere. It is Earth's twin.
On the surface. If you knew anything about the topic, you would know why that's relevant. Since you don't, you're wasting everyone's time.
Also, you described engineering challenges as if they were insurmountable. You can't engineer your way to a magnetosphere or to a stronger gravity, but you sure as shit can engineer a solution to pressure and heat.
(Hint: Or a solution that doesn't require either.)
It's Earth's twin only in mass. There's little to no solar energy because it's permanently clouded over, 900F surface temperature, 90x Earth's atmosphere pressure, no water or oxygen anywhere, and acid rain. Nothing we can build can survive on it's surface. so no, Venus is probably the worst place to try to settle.
Key word: Surface. If you knew anything about the topic, you would know why that's relevant. Since you don't, you're wasting everyone's time.
Also, you described engineering challenges as if they were insurmountable. You can't engineer your way to a magnetosphere or to a stronger gravity, but you sure as shit can engineer a solution to pressure and heat.
(Hint: Or a solution that doesn't require either.)
Then you will be able to tell me what the atmospheric conditions are like some 80-100 km above the surface, yes?
Go on, do. Lecture me about the impossibility of living under Earth-normal gravity and pressures. And then tell me about how it's much easier to FIX GRAVITY on Mars.
You wanna talk to the Russians about pressure and heat when they made the toughest probes and only lasted minutes? The heat and pressure would crush and melt practically anything, including lead. Stop being fucking stupid and shut your dumbass mouth
theoretically any thing is possible if you have infinite money and resources but at some point you have to ask if the goal is worth the infinite money and resources you're pouring into it
Fun fact, my friend helped build the cameras on the perseverance rover. The slats on the tire tread spell out JPL in morris code, because NASA wouldn’t let them print JPL on the actual tire.
I first saw it on the internet, so obviously I knew it was true. Then I met my friend and asked her to confirm, and she said, “this is literally the first thing they tell people when they’re on the your”
Yeah, Moon first. It would be difficult at first but you could put bases near or in shadow of craters, protecting from the Sun, but still get some Solar from nearby. It’s close enough to where supplies could be shipped relatively quickly to them.
The billionaires are ready. It is their salvation, so they think. Have fun cooking in the Martian atmosphere losers. Oh yeah, good luck with finding potable water you fools...
The problem is: when you get past the minimal atmospheric pressure, subzero temperatures, high radiation, and reduced sunlight - the soil is full of a toxic salt called calcium perchlorate that kills anything before it has a chance to sprout. So you can’t just take a shit in a hole and mix in some potting soil like they did in the Martian.
It would require biodomes. Which would be extremely expensive and pointless. What when we have a livable planet we are currently on. It would be far cheaper to fix earths problems than to try and abandon it.
Prediction: Despite whatever must tells you, humans will never go to Mars. Too expensive, too dangerous and there are no tangible benefits that couldn't be gained from robotic travellers.
Yeah. We’ll NEVER “solve” our problems down here. Every time I see these kinds of comments, it’s frustrating. It’s like it’s all got to be happiness and rainbows before we explore.
I have no problems with exploration, but having people living on Mars, without being supported, directly by massive supplies from Earth, is a hundred years out... especially when NASA is defunded by DOGE (my guess is its budget will be given to SpaceX).
See, unlike war, where the money is going into defense contractor coffers, Nasa employs tons of outside contractors and scientific engineering firms. The money isn't being sent to mars, it's being spent in the econony to build something we can send to mars to learn about stuff and develop new technologies that make even more money for the economy. Science is good for people.
By that logic mankind would still be a bunch of monkeys sitting on a tree somewhere in Africa. "We have to get on the ground, take that stone and make tools" -- "No, we solve the problems of our tree here first."
Totally worked for Europe when it "explored" all those other countries! I mean... eventually... sort of... we've all had our ups and down since I suppose... *cough* [pulls at collar etc]
We need to learn more about cosmic radiation and how to block it. Mars has no electromagnetic field, it blocks near enough to 0% of incoming high-energy particles to be not blocking at all. That kind of radiation damages DNA; it unravels it and damages it. Humans cannot withstand prolonged exposure outside of the protection of the Earth's EM field for any protracted length of time, we are just too fragile and too dependent on the environment of this planet.
The other factor is life support in general. If some functional country decided "lets build a city on Mars" and threw $LOL at it, when you send humans a huge amount of the logistics is going to be keeping them alive for a fancy road trip, and even if they get there it's likely a one way trip so you have to deal with old age and then the publicity of handling death in space away from home. Near-term just send robots and a lot of building materials.
Well the atmosphere is largely carbon dioxide, which can be converted pretty readily into oxygen with photosynthesis, so there is that. They also discovered frozen water, but it isn't readily usable. But honestly the biggest hurdles are going to be limiting waste heat and radiation, although most later round proposals usually end with habs being underground or covered by a done made of locally sourced rock.
Aka dying horrible deaths of cancer-type illnesses. Most people don’t understand that we would essentially have to evolve over generations of terrible deaths- if our bodies are even capable of adjusting- before we could comfortably inhabit Mars. Let Elon go tho. If he does not already know this will happen (and he is just essentially being dishonest abt it) then he deserves to find out the hard way.
We already know how to block it. All we need is a very big magnet in between the planet and the sun. To be clear, I mean a very large magnet, not a very powerful one, or a one with high mass. This can be done with an inflatable structure. It would still be expensive though.
I think the most hostile thing about trying to build a colony on Mars is that you have to worry about Elon following you shortly. Everything you described is an engineering problem, but Elon is a social problem and we haven't figured those out yet.
So true. We evolved here. We really like the gravity and the EM and the tides and trees and shit. Lol. We need it. I wish we'd focus the same energy towards terraforming mars and idk...terraform earth.
rhitard
Nanntuckett
The Perseverance rover must be getting lonely. It already lost Ingenuity.
SilentSecretMan
Who are you kidding. That’s downtown Los Angeles
glovelyday
Would you be willing to be totally dependent on Elon Musk for your oxygen supply?
LariCheltsy
"TANSTAAFL!"
Wharglarm
No
bippityboppitybuttsex
If we can terraform Mars, we can terraform Earth.
pelagicdreamer1
That’s my parking space
eggmuffin
Mars is a terrible destinasjon for human habitation. No atmosphere to speak of, no magnetosphere, dim sunlight and a weak gravity makes it living there viable only on a short-term basis, underground.
All the talk of living there is founded on nothing but romanticism.
Those who want to be serious about the subject of settling another planet will instead look to Venus. It is closer, with a stronger gravity, a magnetosphere, abundant solar energy and a dense atmosphere.
It is Earth's twin.
Danceswithpups
Uh, Venus is even more inhospitable:
Atmosphere = 97% Carbon dioxide
Surface temperatures around 860 Fahrenheit
Pressure is 92X greater than Earth's atmosphere at SL
A human who was sent there would die. Suffocate, be crushed by the pressure or burned to a crisp. Not a vacation destination on my list!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus#:~:text=Venus%20is%20the%20second%20planet,supercritical%20state%20at%20Venus%27s%20surface.
Danceswithpups
It IS an example of a "runaway" greenhouse gas reaction. We have an example we should not ignore....
eggmuffin
On the surface.
If you knew anything about the topic, you would know why that's relevant. Since you don't, you're wasting everyone's time.
Also, you described engineering challenges as if they were insurmountable. You can't engineer your way to a magnetosphere or to a stronger gravity, but you sure as shit can engineer a solution to pressure and heat.
(Hint: Or a solution that doesn't require either.)
Danceswithpups
Wow, are we bitter?
Danceswithpups
I don't plan to waste your or my time being insulting. I just don't understand anyone's need to be hateful.
ChickenChickenBurningBright
It's Earth's twin only in mass. There's little to no solar energy because it's permanently clouded over, 900F surface temperature, 90x Earth's atmosphere pressure, no water or oxygen anywhere, and acid rain. Nothing we can build can survive on it's surface. so no, Venus is probably the worst place to try to settle.
eggmuffin
Key word: Surface.
If you knew anything about the topic, you would know why that's relevant. Since you don't, you're wasting everyone's time.
Also, you described engineering challenges as if they were insurmountable. You can't engineer your way to a magnetosphere or to a stronger gravity, but you sure as shit can engineer a solution to pressure and heat.
(Hint: Or a solution that doesn't require either.)
ChickenChickenBurningBright
LOL. 35 years as a NASA engineer, but I'm sure you know better.
eggmuffin
Then you will be able to tell me what the atmospheric conditions are like some 80-100 km above the surface, yes?
Go on, do. Lecture me about the impossibility of living under Earth-normal gravity and pressures. And then tell me about how it's much easier to FIX GRAVITY on Mars.
Go on. Do.
ChickenChickenBurningBright
Christ, you're unpleasant
SwiftyGuy
You wanna talk to the Russians about pressure and heat when they made the toughest probes and only lasted minutes? The heat and pressure would crush and melt practically anything, including lead. Stop being fucking stupid and shut your dumbass mouth
eggmuffin
Is there something about the word "surface" that confuses you?
gnomedeplume
insurmountable as in so extremely cost prohibitive they wouldn't be worth the effort of overcoming
eggmuffin
I'd take expensive over literally impossible.
You can't engineer your way to a stronger gravity etc.
gnomedeplume
theoretically any thing is possible if you have infinite money and resources but at some point you have to ask if the goal is worth the infinite money and resources you're pouring into it
BaloneyBob
Long live Belters.
inthepines
Mars has a thin atmosphere, roughly 100 times less dense than Earth's, and composed primarily of carbon dioxide.
CeruleanSky1988
Peaceful, quiet, tranquil. When can I move in?
Leonesse
but there is no air, no plants , no trees , no water
trekxtrider
Such a waste of time, we are never living on mars.
orangeyougladididntsaypoop
Mars sucks. Boring as fuck. Depressing aesthetics. O/10
pibyte
let's dump the nazis there.
SwissScars
Only Roberts you say. An Elon would be a good companion for them.
Blethigg
What did Robert ever do to you?
SwissScars
built rubbish cars (Not The Nine O'clock News)
PlatypusPowersActivate
Fun fact, my friend helped build the cameras on the perseverance rover. The slats on the tire tread spell out JPL in morris code, because NASA wouldn’t let them print JPL on the actual tire.
gnomedeplume
a literal Easter egg
AntiTrollPatrol
That’s amazing!!!
Angyliqueone
Omg that’s cool. Going to share a my Astro students. Sad they couldn’t put it on the rover directly.
PlatypusPowersActivate
I first saw it on the internet, so obviously I knew it was true. Then I met my friend and asked her to confirm, and she said, “this is literally the first thing they tell people when they’re on the your”
bemibet
What does JPL stand for please?
SwiftyGuy
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
nullbr
does it have wifi?
Leonesse
lol
totallyruinedyourday
Uh no. There’s no atmosphere. Gravity is too low. And the soil and water is toxic. We should be building bases on the moon first…
SwiftyGuy
Yeah, Moon first. It would be difficult at first but you could put bases near or in shadow of craters, protecting from the Sun, but still get some Solar from nearby. It’s close enough to where supplies could be shipped relatively quickly to them.
gnomedeplume
https://defector.com/neither-elon-musk-nor-anybody-else-will-ever-colonize-mars
todaytomorrowwillbeyesterday
The billionaires are ready. It is their salvation, so they think. Have fun cooking in the Martian atmosphere losers. Oh yeah, good luck with finding potable water you fools...
VictusVonGuyver
"I can't wait to litter this planet!" -Humanity.
confracto
Living in Antarctica is so much easier, and so much warmer though!
Leonesse
No Plants , No water , No trees ? I do not think people can LIVE there.
mondomar
Fungi are probably the most important to sustain growth
shapr
potatoes. Have you read The Martian?
Leonesse
There's no oxygen on Mars so it killed all of the potato plants when they were exposed to the harsh Martian environment.
PostMoThoin
Poo tatoes
shyriath
Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew.
Howlingowl
The problem is: when you get past the minimal atmospheric pressure, subzero temperatures, high radiation, and reduced sunlight - the soil is full of a toxic salt called calcium perchlorate that kills anything before it has a chance to sprout. So you can’t just take a shit in a hole and mix in some potting soil like they did in the Martian.
Mmbear
It would require biodomes. Which would be extremely expensive and pointless. What when we have a livable planet we are currently on. It would be far cheaper to fix earths problems than to try and abandon it.
rhitard
You just need to start the reactor.
SmilinSloth
I'm more worried about the gas that causes us to go insane. Ice tea and the movie ghosts of Mars taught me that.
Longinus212
But there's some cool robots!
IAmTheToastyOhs
Not a problem. Lets start sending the billionaires now so they can get in on the ground floor.
Wharglarm
Lol yeah not without a lot of work... ofc you can't just land and be like "well shit looks like we're good to go! Time to monch on some dirt"
TsubakiTragic
Prediction: Despite whatever must tells you, humans will never go to Mars. Too expensive, too dangerous and there are no tangible benefits that couldn't be gained from robotic travellers.
Kyrorayne
Send Elon and the Magats there. They can ruin that rock or die. Prolly just the second one.
papromic
Now this is the first sensible comment I've heard in regard to the whole 'lets immigrate to Mars' debate
ILikeFood2000
What? And inbreed more than they already do. Not sure if that’s possible
Kyrorayne
They'll start hating parts of itself until none are left.
Yellowchopsticks
That wastes too much money. We just need to send them high enough, duct taped to the outside of the rocket. We don't even have to aim.
Telemapus
One of the great things about Imgur vs YouTube, is clicking on a space-related post and seeing the top comment isn't "FAKE!"
Johwin
Can we send Elon yet?
theduckening
send him there and the only transportation is a cybertruck
hiyo365
Haha yes! I'm sure it's much more capable there than on .3" of snow. /s Beam him up, anyone!
(Not just relying on Scotty for this one.)
shyriath
No. WE goes to Mars. Elon can be the first man on the Sun.
TheHuntedSnark
Why is it purring? If no fren, why fren-sounding?
swedeonamoose
First we solve problems back home, then we can think about throwing money on a dead assrock planet
3rdoption
So never.
LespritDeLescalier22
Yeah. We’ll NEVER “solve” our problems down here. Every time I see these kinds of comments, it’s frustrating. It’s like it’s all got to be happiness and rainbows before we explore.
bippityboppitybuttsex
I have no problems with exploration, but having people living on Mars, without being supported, directly by massive supplies from Earth, is a hundred years out... especially when NASA is defunded by DOGE (my guess is its budget will be given to SpaceX).
CyberHexx
See, unlike war, where the money is going into defense contractor coffers, Nasa employs tons of outside contractors and scientific engineering firms. The money isn't being sent to mars, it's being spent in the econony to build something we can send to mars to learn about stuff and develop new technologies that make even more money for the economy. Science is good for people.
AzgarOgly
By that logic mankind would still be a bunch of monkeys sitting on a tree somewhere in Africa.
"We have to get on the ground, take that stone and make tools" -- "No, we solve the problems of our tree here first."
Gindipple
What if exploring other planets is how we solve the problems back home?
Telemapus
Totally worked for Europe when it "explored" all those other countries! I mean... eventually... sort of... we've all had our ups and down since I suppose... *cough* [pulls at collar etc]
conflictmuffins
*Stares blankly while a single native american tear rolls down my face*
timbazi
hmm... how do we solve human problem.
LariCheltsy
Believe there's a quote from Aliens that would fit
Telemapus
You think we should nuke the Earth from orbit?!
conflictmuffins
It's the only way to be sure.
TheMurderousCricket
I am. I am an "Erimophile", so just give me construction materials, some air and let's go.
dwolvin
Sorry, you'll have to provide your own tools and materials...
TheMurderousCricket
Can I at least get a transport for furniture and my books?
CaldariBob
No books, Kindle. And you make furniture out of rocks.
dwolvin
I really want to make a job relocation joke but I'm drawing a blank...
kitskinner19538
jimhotep
We need to learn more about cosmic radiation and how to block it. Mars has no electromagnetic field, it blocks near enough to 0% of incoming high-energy particles to be not blocking at all. That kind of radiation damages DNA; it unravels it and damages it. Humans cannot withstand prolonged exposure outside of the protection of the Earth's EM field for any protracted length of time, we are just too fragile and too dependent on the environment of this planet.
thesnow
Maybe we just forget about all that and let Elon go there to check it out
vystral
Which absolutely makes sense. We did evolve to live with the conditions on THIS planet, after all.
AgentDoggit83
I will if she can be my plus one
VictusVonGuyver
Underground structures just make the most sense. Nothing about mars is easy.
FuzzyX
That is why they aimed to build in a former lava tube to get the ground to protect them.
AntiTrollPatrol
Let’s send musk to test it out.
aducksayswhat
The other factor is life support in general. If some functional country decided "lets build a city on Mars" and threw $LOL at it, when you send humans a huge amount of the logistics is going to be keeping them alive for a fancy road trip, and even if they get there it's likely a one way trip so you have to deal with old age and then the publicity of handling death in space away from home. Near-term just send robots and a lot of building materials.
Lutki
Well the atmosphere is largely carbon dioxide, which can be converted pretty readily into oxygen with photosynthesis, so there is that. They also discovered frozen water, but it isn't readily usable. But honestly the biggest hurdles are going to be limiting waste heat and radiation, although most later round proposals usually end with habs being underground or covered by a done made of locally sourced rock.
Snooj
In that case my answer is "yes".
Me1iss0
Aka dying horrible deaths of cancer-type illnesses. Most people don’t understand that we would essentially have to evolve over generations of terrible deaths- if our bodies are even capable of adjusting- before we could comfortably inhabit Mars. Let Elon go tho. If he does not already know this will happen (and he is just essentially being dishonest abt it) then he deserves to find out the hard way.
stseregh
Don't forget that the soil itself is toxic to both humans and plants!
Hammertulski
It shares that in common with an increasing percentage of Earth’s soil.
Kreviathan
Actually only some areas have trace amounts of perchlorates, which can be rinsed from the soil with water. Not toxic to plants either way.
jimhotep
And it's pulverized so fine that it will get into our lungs and poison us from the inside as well. Fun!
PirateRubberDuck
We already know how to block it. All we need is a very big magnet in between the planet and the sun. To be clear, I mean a very large magnet, not a very powerful one, or a one with high mass. This can be done with an inflatable structure. It would still be expensive though.
MadamPuddifoot
No no, we need to send misky to mars. By himself. Forever.
whitey211
But the Nazi king said it wasn't that big of a deal....
MyOldUserNameMeantUndeadCocaineButNowItsThis
I for one welcome our new Marsian Mutant Overlords
sqeaky
I think the most hostile thing about trying to build a colony on Mars is that you have to worry about Elon following you shortly. Everything you described is an engineering problem, but Elon is a social problem and we haven't figured those out yet.
Oronoguy
Sounds like you just need to toughen up
spacetitties
100%
somethingstupidandclever
So true. We evolved here. We really like the gravity and the EM and the tides and trees and shit. Lol. We need it. I wish we'd focus the same energy towards terraforming mars and idk...terraform earth.
antoinettehaupt2
Thank you 🙏 ❤️
malakim
Its also why terraforming mars is (currently) not feasible. The atmosphere gets abraded by solar winds due to no magnetic field protection
Nalianna
So, send Musk there as a test rat.
AntiTrollPatrol
Yes please.