bnuihj
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More details in the original thread here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/youtube/comments/17z8hsz/youtube_has_started_to_artificially_slow_down/
EDIT:
For the time being, the only real way to fix this on our side is to install an user agent switcher and make Youtube think we're on Chrome:
I installed "User Agent Switcher And Manager" for Firefox and now that Youtube thinks I'm on Chrome, the videos don't stall anymore.
EDIT2:
If youtube still misbehaves, be sure to delete the youtube cookies on Settings -> Privacy -> Cookies -> Manage
Ghostwish
"Sorry, this post has been removed by the moderators of r/youtube." And absolutely no one is surprised.
hygroovy
I'm getting this delay on Chrome too, I assume because I'm using uBlock.
h41fgod
The youtubescript doesnt actually check for user agents anyway. But, since its probably part of the adblocker detection and it is in AB-testing (I think?), mucking about with settings can disable the testing category.
h41fgod
Link to code: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/17ywbjj/comment/ka08uqj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
crodrigues
A/B testing would mean some user browsing sessions might receive it and others might not, even if it is the same user logged in in 2 different browsers, both could have different test rails. There is actually a way to check how many tests are being trialed in every session you start by going into the browser console and hacking away their code, it can be up to 100s of tests. Unfortunately they are all obfuscated, meaning all you'll see most of the times is just text/number IDs
crodrigues
seems like it is mostly A/B testing, which does not mean they can't target mostly or only Firefox users, but so far there is nothing pointing to it yet. https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/17ywbjj/comment/ka08uqj/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Adester
Don't worry, you won't have that uBlock problem much longer.
t9dawg
Ublock O, adguard, adblock and other adblockers with supportive developers will continue to work on youtube on Chrome. Visit their sites for more info. Don't misunderstand scary headlines about their demise.
Adester
Google is looking for ways to get rid of adblockers in chrome. They will most likely include some form of adblocking in chrome, just to not lose so many customers and to control themself which ads you have to see. But the days of 3rd party adblockers in chrome are numbered.
DrDadJokes
so that's why I started to get these few days ago, I temporarly turned off uBlock and it didn't affect a damn thing.
Bystandr
NeT NeUtRaLiTy Is BaD, ThOuGh. - A Shit Pie
DrDadJokes
heartlessninja6
Always got “Things you can still do when the British take control.” vibes from his anti-NN campaign
Kingdomonsterdeath
When that guy dies, they are gonna have a hard time keeping his grave site clean.
DriveByShitting
Grenkak12
Most punchable face ever
DriveByShitting
florpglorp
I hate this rat bastard.
MileysVirus
Looks like a douche that says "cool beans"
StandingOutsideABrokenPhoneBoothWithMoneyInMyHand
Fuck Ajit Paid with a syphilitic cactus.
CloneOgre
I prefer... may his asshole grow tastebuds.
StandingOutsideABrokenPhoneBoothWithMoneyInMyHand
*Pai... Stupid autocorrect, but it's probably right. He was more than likely paid well by companies.
niknights
This has nothing to do with NN though.
backrideup9
After the last 8 years, how can you not know the core reason behind legislation to keep Net Neutrality alive. It's purpose is to stop any company, be it an ISP or otherwise, from throttling or removing content because they dont like it for whatever stupid reason.
niknights
Net Neutrality concerns ISP. Youtube is not, by any means, an ISP. What they are doing is shitty and possibly in breach of some anti-monopoly laws, however, has nothing to do with NN as it is commonly understood. Counter argument to your implied definition: your form of NN would prevent, for example, enforcing various "community rules" as those usually regulate content beyond legal requirements.
MandalorianFromMandalore
Sorry you're getting downvotes, my friend. You know nothing about NN, but still. Sorry.
niknights
Are you so sure you know what NN is? See, e.g. https://www.eff.org/issues/net-neutrality
onlyhalfghost
Being pedantic is one thing, being pedantic and wrong with a snarky apology just makes you an asshole.
niknights
Before you join the downvote badwagon please read what NN actually is, e.g., https://www.eff.org/issues/net-neutrality<">ality">https://www.eff.org/issues/net-neutrality</a> or https://www.wired.com/story/guide-net-neutrality/ after which you might realize that YouTube is a content provider, not an internet service provider (ISP) and that NN relates to traffic shaping a traffic prioritization performed by ISPs.
MandalorianFromMandalore
You're arguing the first pillar of the NN debate while ignoring all others. When you have a company like Alphabet or Apple that have a near total control of the market from device to browser to content the neutrality issue becomes relevant. Imagine if Apple just decided its users cant text or call Android users. Imagine if Google just decided if they dont get paid they wont serve search results (they are close to doing this one). Imagine what that would mean and now understand the debate.
niknights
This is a completely different debate regarding anti-monopoly and anti-competition laws and other shitty behavior these large conglomerates engage in and which require enforcement of existing regulations and perhaps might require new regulations altogether. You are conflating NN, a proposed regulation regarding solely ISPs and their handling of traffic, with other aspects of possible anti-consumer behavior you gave examples of.
whyisthisusernamealwaystaken
What a surprise the mods removed the video from Reddit.
bnuihj
What the...
Ilovetomakestuffup
I'm using chrome and use uBlock. I had this delay too, but it's gone for 2 weeks now...
Sauroctonus
Is that why videos I've not seen yet sometimes start a few seconds in?
PointsWhore
Maybe not. The video that you want to see, if it’s not seen by anyone else, then the small delay is because it’s not getting loaded from the local service-provider cache. If more people see it then it stays in the cache for some time and other users get seamless experience. Same happens with every other content provider.
Dlaw25
Very similar to what Microsoft did to Netscape back in the day.
Shuey
This shit is literally anti competitive tactics... Thus can literally get them stuck in a class action lawsuit. Let's get the Orcas!
Skawomplious
Don't pay for anything Alphabet. Block their ads and pirate it all, take your business to other platforms if you can (not that Youtube has much competition anymore), don't give them a dime in subscription fees or ad money. Unions make employers behave, and coordinated activity by consumers can bring these platforms to heel as well.
bnuihj
I recently discovered odysee.com and it's quite cool honestly. (I don't know much about it, so don't blame me if they are later outed as satan worshipers or something lol )
Skawomplious
I've been using FreeTube, but I'll check it out.
Rhyacorp
This truly is the dumbest arms race....
yellowtoolboxblackbag
I mean, we're on the dumbest AND darkest timeline- so you can't be that surprised?
malachilenomade
Maybe it's just me but these sort of tactics just come across as childish. Seriously, they need to either just pull the trigger and make it so Youtube will no longer work on anything but Chrome or give these goofy 'punishment' ideas of theirs a rest.
GuggelPlayer
Make a problem, sell a solution
astronomypictures
Don't be Evil
yellowtoolboxblackbag
Updated version: "Don't NOT be evil."
simplefishy
Google, hold my beer
DreamPhreak
Oh for fuck's sake. I've been trying to fix this disabling almost all my addons, reinstalling firefox, restarting the modem + router multiple times, upgrading one of the ethernet cables to a cat8, and ultimately just giving up on trying to fix that slow loading.... only to now learn that it was intentional!?
bnuihj
hahaha yeah, I know that feeling. Use a user agent switcher and make youtube think you're on Chrome: Fixed.
[deleted]
[deleted]
bnuihj
archSkeptic
The level of pathetic would be funny if it wasn't really annoying
stiner282
Huh, its in the JS backend. You can use a User Agent Switcher to spoof a Chrome connection. I was prepared to call this Imgur/Reddit BS but from what I can see it's true. Edge doesn't suffer from this BTW, since its Chromium based I guess.
mercmech
Add this as a custom ublock origin filter: www.youtube.com##+js(nano-stb, resolve(1), *, 0.001)
DaPopeM
As a fire fox user. This has been an issue for awhile. Even worst if you use it with VPN or ad blockers. It's like being back with dial up.
bnuihj
Absolutely! I've been suffering videos stalls for months! I have put the user agent switcher and POOF! now it's as smooth as butter...
terletbowl5000
Fairly confident the YouTube app on iOS is massively crippled too, but I don’t have any data or comparison. Any interruption in connection that other apps handle gracefully even when their buffer runs dry puts YouTube into like vapor lock.
coreyog
Sounds like something a monopoly would do...
HardcoreMango
Remember "Don't be evil"? Good times
rbudrick
I remember when they removed it from their site. There's literally only two reasons to do that: realization of being evil and intention to continue doing evil.
bnuihj
and the slides and the funny colors... ah yes, good times. Now it's corporate Alphabet for us peasants.
AceBandito
I've always used Firefox just cause, so fuck me I guess.
cousteau
On the plus side, it took you longer to be bothered by this crap than those using Google's shitty browser.
bnuihj
not anymore! install a user agent extension, make youtube think you're on Chrome and that's it.
cousteau
Can those be configured per site?
bnuihj
On "User Agent Switcher And Manager" for Firefox you can put it in "white list mode" and set it to only change your user agent for a list of websites. I only use it on youtube for the moment.
JimBuckThree
“Don’t be evil.”
alexburgers
they actually quietly dropped that a while ago.
mafiacarstarter
Which is why it comes up so much when they're evil.
a1b3117
This should result in a class action lawsuit by Firefox and it's users, an FTC fine greater than their quarterly profits and a hard spanking to the developers who took a 6 figure salary and wrote this shit
Svartsinn
How about a fine based on revenue instead of profits. I want to see fines so severe they bankrupt businesses and crash their stock value. Investors need to learn not to invest in highly profitable criminal enterprises and the only way that happens is consequences. The whining will be biblical.
bnuihj
The EFF and the Mozilla foundation will surely take a very close look at this, no doubt.
a1b3117
And hopefully the EU.
SpeedBeetle
Behold, the Adblock Wars have begun.
cousteau
Like 10 or 15 years ago.
mikeatike
And adblock immediately wins.
archSkeptic
They started a while ago now. YouTube was preventing folks from watching videos if they could detect an Adblocker
bnuihj
It was happening to me and I wasn't even using an adblocker, but I was using Firefox.
NerdNerdburger
The browser wars have entered the finals. FF vs the many masks of Chrome.
bnuihj
NomDeImguerre
In Europe that would be considered illegal.
0570
Enforcement is a whole different issue though.
GlenL
In the US it's also illegal . . . depending on market cap, obviously
SaltySlugs
It's only illegal if you can't afford to keep paying for the problem to go away.
SpeedBeetle
"Illegal" is merely a suggestion for the US.
HenryLongfellowIII
A suggestion that some lobbyist funding can deal with.
datester35
I just tried it on my firefox and don't notice this. Hopefully they already reverted it.
nichfra
I have good news they never did it in the first place. At least not browser specific they apparently tested some code that added some delay but did so in every Browser.
streath
Its happening in Europe my dude
DisguisedLizardThing
Haven't noticed anything like that yet, not with Firefox and uBlock. If anything videos load faster since I regularly update the uBlock filters.
NomDeImguerre
Illegally, though .
Etherealvalentine
And yet, it's still happening.
SumOneElse
Illegal only means that it will cost the company a few billion dollars a few years later. By which time the manager who signed off on this will have already cashed out his big bonus for increasing Chrome's market share and left the company.
NomDeImguerre
Up to 20% of Alphabet/Google's total worldwide annual turnover (so, not profit). For 2022, that would be a fine of about 60 billion. That's not something even a company as big as A/G can easily get past. So there is definitely an impetus for the company to not have their managers pull shit like this.
DSREX
EU is by far more likely to take action on this. EU has largely saved the internet on multiple occasions. Their regulators have teeth and will use them. Ours are feckless and have long ago been crushed.
PanNonOpticon
Unfortunately EU is slow.
DSREX
Slow is better than nothing.
SpoilsburyToastMan
They weren't crushed. They've been getting kickbacks from the companies they're supposed to regulate.
DSREX
Both? The ones who cared got crushed by the ones getting paid off. Still a complete shit show.
makeSX
That means they are crushed
madvin
I'm in Europe, and I have this problem with Youtube on my Firefox.
youareagreatguybut
Remember when Google's motto was "Do not do evil"? Pepperidge farms remember...
bnuihj
They dropped the funny colors and toboggans too. The party is over, they're now the OCP
bnuihj
SLIDES not toboggans. Sorry for mixing up languages here :-p
conniecpu
Followed down the threads, apparently there's a filter you can add to uBlock Origin to remove their artificial delay ;)
www.youtube.com##+js(nano-stb, resolve(1), 5000, 0.001)
Someone from the uBO team posted that in a thread just 2 hours ago so I wouldn't be surprised if it makes it into the standard filters soon
vwyx
!
DocBenny
.
TheFastpaws
Nice
TheMeats
Note for self later: ublock YouTube script. Thanks 👍
Higure
There is one that removes the rounded corners of videos as well. Don't have it handy at the moment, but it's out there.
Zedrapazia
Thanks dude!
Kompi
Commenting to return later, but yes I agree, it will probably be part of the standard update
BenderRodriguezz
.
8r8vg8Model
.
chesiredawg
.
burninator2
.
cheesymcnoodle
.
archSkeptic
Gonna have to do this in a second
undercoverles
I suggest this more than user-agent spoofing. UA spoofing can cause issues with sites because bot-nets use UA spoofing in data scraping
SneakyGaryTheSerialHorseDrowner
I appreciate you :)
OnionCutter
TheBigBadBonerBiter
This comment is a reminder to check it out when I get home.
SpoilsburyToastMan
TheBestSpiderQueen
.
Nacreth
. Of remembrance
bnuihj
I have tested this filter and, even though it helps, the only way to really fix the issue is by using a browser extension to change your user agent ID. I installed User Agent Switcher And Manager for Firefox and now that Youtube thinks I'm on Chrome, the videos don't stall anymore.
HackerWithYourUsernameAndPassword
But wouldn't they still achieve their goal by boosting their provable chrome user numbers for advertisers when more people spoof their browsers to appear as chrome?
AkoSuminoe
No because there receiving an artifical number, they're not getting actual users who are providing the data Google wants
Axianamos
I just use opera. No issues.
tarnok
That's chrome with a paint job
TheExpatBrit
Opera is a Chrome browser under the hood.
Higure
Firefox and Safari are basically the only notable browsers that aren't.
Higure
And Tor, which is Firefox based.
Axianamos
Its chromium based, not chrome. And just because I said I've got no issues with opera, why's that mean I'm getting downvotrd to hell? People have a problem with opera? I mean, ublock works better on opera than on chrome. Not sure why that's a contentious point
heyimjephph
I'm not experiencing any issues on opera, chrome, or edge... This seems to have more to do with specific ad blockers and not the browser from what I can tell
mrthewhitee
Sure would be nice if we had some anti-trust laws that could step in here...
hollowboy
I don't get it. Youtube servers are private property. If the public want access to that property, they have to put up with whatever
Ivalicenyan
There's no room for nuance or that kind of thinking here on Imgur. YouTube has been tolerating ad blockers all this time, and they should continue to tolerate it because that's what would be convenient to everyone. YouTube or Google have absolutely no right to do with their sites, servers, and services what they will, because that's inconvenient to people that use ad blockers. Imgur has no place for dissenters that disagree with mob opinion.
Oogibah
"I'm sorry I can't hear you" - net neutrality
ThailandExpress
"Sorry cant hear you over the campaign and CPAC donations Google gives us' Congress probably
putcleverusernamehere
LOL, in our dreams:
Ivalicenyan
If that was the case, Google would likely be salty and pull their funding which would likely close Firefox. Firefox has been kept alive for years by a contract between Mozilla and Google to make Google the default search engine. I doubt Mozilla has the stones to sever that relationship. They can't stay afloat from donators
pudaheh
Americans don't like politicians who support strong anti-trust because most of them also support crazy things like freedom for Palestinians, trans health care, strong unions, progressive taxation, strong environmental protection and other satanic pinko malarkey.
putcleverusernamehere
fucking liberals /s
Craftbeergirl520
And now I need to find a way to fit satanic pinko malarkey into a conversation. But you are not wrong
pudaheh
I'm going to get it on a t-shirt. One of those 70s-style ones with the glittery bubble letters.
AgainstMethod
Idk if that's the right kind of case to bring here, but this does look a lot like a net neutrality issue, doesn't it?
JesaraB
Related but not quite the same as net neutrality focuses on limiting the ability of ISPs to control or throttle your access, for example if comcast has a deal with disney, you wouldn't want them throttling netflix and amazon prime to make disney+ appear better by comparison.
Mongicane
Isn’t this almost exactly your example? YouTube and chrome share a parent company, they’re giving preferential treatment to their sister company.
JesaraB
very very similar, and there should be more attention paid to those things, but most of the focus on net neutrality has been focused on the initial access point of your isp and what they could do, effectively locking you into their own environment (in a sense like AOL used to be in the late 90s and early 00s, where getting to non-AOL content if they had similar was sometimes a struggle)
Leithoa
Youtube, is giving preferential treatment to chrome. Both companies are owned by alphabet. Firefox is a direct competitor with chrome. This is clearly collusion between subsidiaries to impact the market of a competitor.
DartTarget13
Antitrust laws exist to benefit us, the users. Like when apple was literally slowing down their older products after doing "security updates." While I see your point, the Antitrust Laws do a great job at holding corporates accountable. https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-to-start-paying-out-500m-in-iphone-slowdown-lawsuit/
KleptoKea
Maybe Americans should catch up and make some
JohnnyLawlessEsq
It's sad that you're right, especially given we pretty much invented them...
putcleverusernamehere
First we'd have to elect all new representatives as the current ones have already been purchased (sorry, "lobbied")
KleptoKea
In healthy democracies like mine for example in NZ, politicians aren't allowed to be pocketed by private interests, for obvious reasons. Perhaps Americans should catch up on that too.
JustAnotherRabidToaster
The problem is one of inches. Each time a company takes an inch (be it in shady or underhanded stuff, or just outright fraud) and isn't immediately slapped hard, the line moves a bit, and a bit more and a bit more until finally (maybe?) they get knocked back a bit, but that time, they've already taken a mile, and that's a mile you'll never get back
jcourtois19908888
I had a professor explain this concept to me once, is there an actual term for it?
kamenhokage
Disney and Copyright/Public Domain laws.
TheDefective
Meet me in the middle, said the unreasonable man, taking a step backwards.
Ultratoxic
Then we'll take the whole company. I think corporate fines should have mandatory minimums in percentage equity of the company (say, 15%) and a publicly elected member of the board for strike one. Strike two is 51% ownership. Strike three is you're now a government department. This goes for banks too.
mrthewhitee
The problem is actually the Republicans dismantled anti-trust laws changing the threshold for when the gov steps in from when a company has outsized power to when a company has near absolute power in a market.
loitho
EU has entered the chat
Soggybathroomsock
Yeah, don't hold your breath.
hakunamatatamotherfucker
Lobby happens here as well. Going to guess it's a matter of time.
mrthewhitee
I hate that as a non-eu citizen, I have to rely on the EU to enforce common sense restrictions that may or may not carry over to my country... so frustrating.
fightkostka6
the showcase is probably US user, so it can be case only for US citizens and not EU. The same way like with windows will be letting you uninstall edge and other staff in EU but not in US
dasklaus
German here, happening to me too.
ztygs
Hello, Danish user from Denmark here, my Firefox is doing it too.
bnuihj
nope. I'm in Europe and I'm affected.
mfcrogue
ha! We're nether US or EU go brexit /s
straikychan
Same
TypicallyVigo
Hmm, I'm a little on the fence about the letting users uninstall Edge thing. Like, on the one hand user freedom is good and edge isn't too good; but the programmer in me is recoiling at the thought of a user uninstalling all their web browsers and then throwing a fit about it.
TypicallyVigo
Just to hopefully cut off any future comments; the thing I am expressing in the second half of my comment is an emotion I feel when thinking about the situation and not at all an argument against the policy. Much the same way I think Two-Factor Authentication is objectively a good thing to do, but also feel it is absolutely annoying to actually do in the moment.
ztygs
With this argument remove the speeder from cars because people might accidentally press it while still inside their garage with the door closed. There's plenty other ways you can mess up a Windows install than removing Edge.
TypicallyVigo
No, because it's not an argument. It's the emotions I feel when I think about the situation. I think this is a good thing, as the first half of my comment says. But also, a user is going to uninstall it, they're going to make it some IT or Call Center persons problem, probably with yelling; and that makes me groan when I think about it.
kinarism
Authority should never be a replacement for redirection and education.
TypicallyVigo
As a person, I whole heartily agree with you; as a programmer, the look of derision I have might break my face.
fightkostka6
don't worry Microsoft will probably warn you 3 times at least before actually letting you uninstall it
fishmaceins
And even then it's not actually uninstalled but hidden
losersmanual
So we should all suffer bloat because of some idiot?
TypicallyVigo
Nope, I didnt say anything like that.
arikelrecords2000
All you would need is an executable file that lets you download the edge, which isn't removable. That way if they're dumb they can re-download something
TypicallyVigo
I don't think it would work that way? I may be wrong; I assumed this new policy would cover any files on a system, not specifically Edge/browsers. So the executable would need to be removable too. But yeah, that was my thought too, have a call in control panel or somewhere "So ya wanna download Edge but ya ain't got no browser?" button.