IfPotatoesCouldTalk
61767
1540
24
2024 Software Engineer Job Search In Canada. 5 YOE
Apr 24, 2024 8:28 PM
IfPotatoesCouldTalk
61767
1540
24
2024 Software Engineer Job Search In Canada. 5 YOE
ValhallaPaperBoy
20+ year professional here. Pro tip: never apply directly to a company. Always go through a talent agency. Companies pay lots of $$ to find resources through these agencies. This doesn't cost you anything. Let the agency do the heavy lifting for you to find what matches your talent. They will also help you with your career path. Once you are in the door, that is all on you.
CodeWarrior
I have been looking for a good agency as a software engineer. Got any recommendations? I have 15 years experience, laid off two months. Applied to 70+ positions, I have one interview scheduled (actually RE-scheduled twice...).
RummageSaleBubbler
Congrats on accepting an offer!
MoonBoots92
That software though
TeamToasterNeverForget
That’s so shitty.. I’m a chemical engineer and all I was was an interview with boss, then a personality test (which you can’t fail) and then discussion with new boss and HR.. I’ve done exactly this at both adult jobs I’ve had..
2graves
Things have gotten much much worse in the past year or so. The last time I was job hunting I had three offers within a week. Now, about a year and a half later, I have had one interview with a recruiter and nothing Else. After two months
f3n1x187
even the bogus LinkedIn offers have stopped :S
aShogunNamedMarcus
I like a good Sankey diagram, unfortunately my only hiring is in Malaysia these days. Still gotta return to that US office 3 days per week though!
Skywatcher16
that percent of "ghosted" need to be named and shamed. society gotta stop letting "professionals" get off the hook for being unprofessional
Skywatcher16
especially when rejection calls/emails are so fast and easy to spit out with whats by now, DECADES old tech.
AbortedSandwich
Only need one, congrats.
DarkWingz
That my dating graphed too
oldradios19772000
I don't think people really understand just how bad the job market is right now in tech. And not even just tech. I have friends who have been out of work for over a year, have placed hundreds and hundreds of applications. And if they're lucky maybe they get through round one of interviews and that's about it. It's super bad
Gryphonosiris
It's really messed up that some recruiters just ghost people. At least have the courtesy to send an E-mail...!
Skywatcher16
even carbon copy automated junk is better than no response at all.
19tmoose97
I feel like most companies use recruiters now, the companies that are worth working for anyway.
airen
Forst round has 7 but 8 outputs?
KRHo
Technical Assessment has 3 inputs from First Round and one input from Recruiter
airen
You right
KRHo
OrionKaelin
While out of a job finding a job is your job. But it shouldn't be a grind to this volume...
ExorionPremier
What stack ? Asking to know if I got lucky on my last order (C# 7YOE)
ChickenLord666
This graphic is not easy to follow
ComicSansHumor
Looks very similar to my breakdown. 2024 Software Engineer Job Search in San Francisco. 15 YOE.
HypnagogicHallucinations
Does Excel build Sankey diagrams?
ComicSansHumor
Dunno! I don't have a copy of Excel. I used the tool mentioned in the op's image.
bortlp
5 YOE? They're hiring 5 Year Old Engineers?
TricksForDays
Yes. Gotta start them early
tonchandailvert
How will you have 30 years of experience for an entry position otherwise?
Brhino
How long does it generally take for you to hear back? Or... how long before you consider yourself to be "ghosted"? I'm an Electrical Engineer in Michigan looking for work right now and most of my resumes (send in the last 2-3 weeks generally) have not yielded a response.
Koldfront
My rule of thumb when job searching was that if the opening had a "apply before this date" then if you didn't hear anything back *within* that window, then you got ghosted. All the positions that offered me interviews all replied back before the date where the offer would "run out"
thejon
I've been searching for a new role for just shy of 3 months. Median time to rejection is 9 days, average is 12, but I've had more than one send a rejection email 60+ days after applying.
Plagen
I just started a new job this week. I started to fill out applications in November. Filled out around 150 or so applications since. Of those, I interviewed for a total of 5. One never reached back out even though they needed someone in the next month or two. The rest said no fairly soon after, and two offered me the position (I took the remote one).
Out of the other 150, around 30 sent an email to say they weren't interested. I give jobs about a month till I'm fairly certain they ghosted.
Plagen
I had one job that turned me down even send a generic decline email, but they didn't change the default fields. So they sent me something like, "Thank you for apply to the [INSERT POSITION HERE] position. Unfortunately..." Like, how lazy can you be? lol
somnif
When I was interviewing for a job with the USDA, it took 8 weeks to hear back after my 2nd interview. They said no.
HighSorcerer
I don't have a particular field of expertise so I can't really quote you for yours but typically I don't hear back from any company worth applying to for a minimum of a week possibly two, and I generally consider them a lost cause after a month. Sometimes it helps to email their HR if you can find the address and ask for an update on where your application is in the review process. Applying for jobs is just fucking awful mate good luck to everyone looking.
Brhino
Thanks. 20 years at the same job so all of this is new to me.
HighSorcerer
Man I feel for ya. Job hunting is trash, all the websites like indeed and monster are all just the same bullshit and people trying to scam you, you have to go to company's individual websites to find the real opportunities. It took me 3 months to find my last job, my cousin was out of work 6 months before he found his current job. Sincerely, good luck dude. I wish you the best.
phattyduck
Engineering is HEAVILY networking dependent. The first one is by far the hardest. Since that point in my career most of my jobs (all but one) have been through industry contacts. Hiring engineers is very risky, so “known” quantities are highly sought after.
Grambot
Location? On site or fully remote?
I'm happy in my job but sometimes wonder how the market is behaving if I was too look for a change
ThisGuyHere
SilverStarling
Retail is 300 applicants per job here.
LordOfTheFleas
In Canada too, been looking since January. According to LinkedIn most jobs have > 100 applicants in less than 12 hours.
I'm surprised at the number of recruiters that will do a call, then never follow up.
GiantFlyingLabia
I’m pretty certain I would categorically turn down an automated interview. It really tells me they have an “I don’t give a fuck” attitude
Eidodk
I once went to a group test for a job in a large well known shipping firm. I left when i saw the 49 others taking the test, thinking "this is a massive waste of my resources"
Bohrdumb
Personal story... I spent the last two weeks hiring for a new position. We use a software Im unfamiliar with as I don't typically hire people. Took several candidates into the late rounds before landing my fav candidate.
I pass word to the hiring people that we've confirmed our hire. At which point they close the job in the software which automatically sent out an email to all the other candidates that they weren't being selected, closed the job entirely, and I no longer have access to their
Bohrdumb
resumes and information. Which feels really bad because I wanted to call the other two candidates who we had in the final round and personally let them know.
I get that the system saves time, but it's really unpleasant and I'm quite frustrated that folks who put in time and effort just got a form filled email...
meowingintensifies
Don't call someone to reject them. It sounds nice, but gutwrenching because they see your call as "I got it". Rejection emails are kinder.
ArthurT
How wonderfully automatedly impersonal. God I love lying on Resumes...
2graves
As a job hunter, I'd love a rejection email these days
Rainbowdaesh
Three jobs turned down? Looks like no one wants to work anymore. /s
Good on you for not settling on something that either didn't interest you or would be underpaying you.
MyGreatestFearBoner
My wife has a Ph.D., 4 years in industry for Clinical Trial Management. 700 applications in the last 9 months. And heard back from maybe 15. Most are recruiting with no actual delivery. It's a depressing market. The rest are ghosts or blind rejections from the horse shit ATS.
Lostarchitorture
Many of the ones I have received in the past from recruiters turn out later don't fit fully what I want or need; and I don't find out those specific details until during the interview process
Rainbowdaesh
My current job was from a recruiter, but it's one that I've known for a while and he knows what type of places I'd be most comfortable in.
bananaforscale0009
lol the turned down jobs are bait and switch
Ffudmethen
I just went 6 months without a job this graph is very similar to mine
ridureyu
A job offer from a company where you sell knives at your own expense but you can gain money by recruiting salesmen beneath you.
Monkeyshit2
I do think they actually changed it so that they give you a small set of the knives to start w/ that you don’t have to pay for. At least in 2012 when I worked there briefly that had just changed it. Idk if they went back
MonkeyPushButton
Hahaha that Vector!
Isiel89
Yes, we are looking for a young, energetic, go-getter with 159 years experience, 10 PhDs, paying $16.75/hour. Overtime encouraged.
superfluffysheep
The jobs recruiters cold-contact me about are invariably like uber-senior management jobs and I'm like "you clearly didn't read my resume, I'm a peon."
wouldClimbForCash
Yeah but 3 months of management salary is like a year of peon, right? Shoot for the moon! (Kidding. Sounds like a recipe for getting blacklisted.)
METROlD
In IT the numbers are a lot LOT worse. Im at 700 applications and only 3 interviews with 24 years experience. And companies are sitting back saying I dont know... I think this particular person is an idiot. I dont think he knows enough about security. And then I begin to highlight how I have built entire security departments and committees from scratch and navigated countless SOC2 audits and theyre like. I dont know... I swear, its not a job search anymore its a beauty pageant. I know my shit.
HelpfulCorn
If you're sending that many applications you're just spamming your resume out there and applying to a lot of positions that are a terrible fit. I am also in IT with 30 years of experience. Every time I've changed jobs I've applied to a handful that were a good fit. Even in 2009, just took a little longer that time
RichardNunez
Being in IT and finding a job depends a lot on regional location and discipline. For example, looking for IT work in Silicon Valley as a coffee monkey would be really difficult. The same in a different part of the country would be much easier. I work in Houston as DevOps with 16+ years of experience. I can't beat the recruiters away hard enough. I can lose my job today and find a new job by tomorrow. But being a regular programmer in Houston would be more difficult.
Spootanany
Hey stop replying to my comment and deleting it before I can respond, weirdo
youreathing
Looking at the account, this may be an abandoned account that was co-opted by a bot.
mrputter
Ouch, yes. Pretty clearly.
gablestout
Hacked/stolen and sold...you can buy an "aged Imgur" account for $35. There's a whole marketplace for purchasing "aged" social media accounts. I've even seen (fake) LinkedIn accounts, complete with hundreds of connections (to other fake LinkedIn accounts for a few hundred. You buy one, switch all of the personal info, and VOILA! You look like a well connected whatever you want to be...
youreathing
What a time to be alive.
gablestout
It's bizarre...Not even dark web either. It was a middleman/marketplace website. They list the specs for the account, put you in contact with the seller to verify, you buy direct from the seller, and they take a commission from the seller.
fformulaa
Argusdubbs
[deleted]
[deleted]
Xenarion
two dicks on vote to speak? Dafuk does that even mean?
miked854
It makes sense in nihongo, yo.
Emangelo
I've never seen this kind of graph format before.
goriman
Sankey diagram, for visualizing distribution of flow. It is used well in this example
avastmehearty
Reminds me of the classic chart showing the manpower of the army of Napoleon as he marched to Moscow and then rereated
tg2222222
I don't understand were the 81 applied number comes from.
3ifish
Use a Sankey diagram in a presentation and amaze your audience. You will spend more time discussing the merits of the diagram and still ace your assignment or win the project, or whatever the goal of the presentation was. A close 2nd choice would be a Mekko chart.
10wreckedtenrecs
Hmmm, yes. It’s strange to me and I fear it.
HypnagogicHallucinations
Death to Sankey!
linuxfailer
i was highly impressed by it too.
wyrihaximus
Automated Video Interview?
Leithreas
Please everyone watch the Middleditch and Schwartz episode that includes this. On Netflix.
dontrike
Had one of those, it's one of the most awkward things. The business just wants to see you speak out an essay because who doesn't like a dog that jumps through hoops?
middlenameconfusion
I'm not even looking for a job and I hate this.
Nightcaste
Ever heard of video dating? It's kind of like that, but for a job instead of a date. You turn on your webcam, verbally respond to written questions, then never hear from those people again.
Myrealnameisunusual
Wait until you are interviewed by an AI. Talk about a demeaning experience.
UncomfortableQuestions
My graduate program application required a 30 minute video of answers to questions.
TheDreadPirateMontoya
Talk slowly.
daftpumpkin
holy COW
laxpatrol
“You’re not even worth our time to interview.”
ButterfaceTaintClown
I am a meat popsicle
sturmhauke
Thank you for applying to Initech, ! We hope you will become a cog in our machine! Please answer the following questions, and we will be sure to send you a personalized rejection as soon as possible!
xmaneds
Thank you for the opportunity!!11!!ZOMG ! ... whenever I work for a company, I always ask myself, "is this GOOD for the COMPANY ?!!??!" hahahaa great, right ? !!!!
Samja192
My work does these. Series of questions and you have to video your answers
ImpossibleAgenda
Collins Aerospace tried to get me to do one of those. Fuck all that.
bestquesadillaintown
Yes. Becoming more common with larger organizations. I know many units within NATO does this.
UprootedGrunt
I hate those.
coloredgreyscale
https://youtu.be/aLx2q-UnH6M
TheInfamousPenguin
"Hello. WOuld you LIKE a job. Please, Explain."
jeffois
Apple used to use these. You had 60nseconds to read the question and prepare, then record a 90 second response.
hoopyhoop
It's a way to make sure you aren't secretly black before they spend time interviewing you.
sadurdaynight
or old
IOnlyRepostFrontPageStuff
It's sad, but this is actually one of the reasons. It also them to see you before actually accepting applications, it allows discrimination on race or gender with this loophole
Totters
Is there a way to combat it?
IOnlyRepostFrontPageStuff
Apply somewhere else, unfortunately, it is within their right
CarrotYeen13
Fire.
TheDreadPirateMontoya
Use one of those 3D avatars that eGirls use on streams?
pixelsnader
Yeah that'a why it is called *.avi
HypersonicHero
Explain for my friend who doesn't know shit.
HypersonicHero
Please
GesticularTorsion
AVI is a video format, short for Audio Video Interleaved. The commenter was making a joke based on the interview submission being a video, and the acronym fit for Automated Video Interview.
moodytravesty
they're joking that the .avi multimedia file extension stands for (A)utomated (V)ideo (I)nterview. It doesn't; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Video_Interleave
HypersonicHero
Ahh, my friend would like you to know he laughed
sturmhauke
.avi is a video file format
comet1011
Yea I've seen those. It's a process where it demands that you take video of yourself answering pre determined questions and then the video is submitted for review. It's really, really dumb.
ItchyBunghole
Did that for Barrick Gold. I didn't make the next round because 'it looked like I was reading my answers'. I thought it was because I was suited up top but naked down below. And of course I was reading... got a better job anyway.
DorkJedi
that falls firmly in the did not complete category.
AfterTheRainComesTheRainbow
I hate those so much, I *hate* being on camera/photos of me and so I avoid jobs that demand these
PainGwen
I had to do that - the one I did was asynchronous, in that I didn’t have to show up at an appointed time to do the video, but I did have to complete it within in specific window of time (something like 24 hrs), and once I started it, I was committed. I wasn’t given the questions until I started the session, and had an “unlimited” amount of thinking/rehearsing time, and then once I decided to record I think I got three takes before I just had to submit a response. Then the next question
PainGwen
It took like an hour, and I hated every moment. Every pause or “um” or repeated word was very jarring in the playback; things I probably wouldn’t have done or that people wouldn’t have noticed in a live interview had me sweating and restarting until I was frothy with anxiety. All that, AND, they sent me an email with an expired link so I actually missed the window and had to email them to renew the link because the window was over the weekend so I couldn’t get in touch to ask for help. Awful.
PainGwen
And no, despite being very qualified, I didn’t get the job. I know people who work there and I have a good idea about the competition. Not sure if they just didn’t like me or if my technical difficulties tanked me. Hard to say. But it wasn’t worth the stress.
ProppaGanda
I don't know how desperate must be anybody who actually goes for it. A great way to ensure that you hire only the worst of the worst.
flashboredom
Sometimes that's the goal
sadurdaynight
Worse.. they run it through an algorithm by some third party company that supposedly can tell if you're lying and also determine all kinds of characteristics, like if you're cheerful, honest, etc, etc. It's absolutely 1984 panopticon bullshit, and surprised HR dept's haven't been sued for it yet.
runswithchickens
Yeah I had to do one of these. So awkward… all I could think was that it says to applicants they are not important enough to be met with by a live person. I’m in HR btw too.
Tomigami
I've had a few of those on offer, and I declined all but one. As bad as I felt turning them down, I felt WAY worse after finishing the one I did. They're gross and dumb.
theraininspainfallsmainlyontheplain
I had to do this. I also had to download an app and make an account to do it. And before that, during the application, I had to do a quiz to determine how I'd handle certain scenarios (those are very common in service now).
squillis
Dang, can't say I've had that, but I have had a practical demo where they spin up a temporary server and I need to perform a list of actions on it to prove expertise
OmNachoMama
I've been laid off for the 2nd time in 14 months. I applied for a tech sales job at Lumen. They require a personality test and the automated video interview. I'm not desperate enough for a job to do this - yet
zsefvgb
I've had one of those (student internship) but it had like 3 questions that had different amounts of thought time before answering. First was was to just tell them about yourself & bknd for 10 minutes, then was a standard interview question with 5 minutes of think time, then the last one gave about 30s to read the technical question and then 5m to answer it. I hated the whole process, but love the 3rd's format for the think on your feet problem solving, Its my favourite.
ThereAreChameleonsEverywhereProbably
I did it, it was horrible. Your answer is timed and you watch yourself all big on the screen in real time answer interview questions and it's so distracting that I sorta stumbled through the first question
aThingWithTheStufAndTheJunk
Fun fact: those are biased against minorities because of course they are.
alaest0r
I'll do it with a vtuber model
fenrishero
Jesus, I'd rather be ghosted than deal with that.
HandoB4Javert
If it's a programming job, get ChatGPT to answer the questions ONLY with other questions...
KMakyra
I did it for the game company I work for. It's a "vibe check" essentially. Mostly trying to see who is willing to put up with pointless bull, I'm sure.
Manse84
You should try the interview process for DoD civilians in the US. You get 3-5 questions half an hour before, then you have 25-45 minutes (depending on the job) to answer all of them while the panel just sits there. They're not allowed to ask questions, and half the time it's a phone interview so you're just talking into the void the whole time
jamandtoast
That's a standard interview process for American government jobs. They do this for State jobs here. It's very strange the first time you do it.
Snowflake1942
And then the payoff is you get an average paying job where you can twiddle your thumbs for 40 years until you retire.
1BadPanda
That sounds wonderful. I could talk about what I can do with a computer for hours.
Manse84
It's not super bad in person, you can plot out your responses and tweak it as you go based on their reactions. But on the phone, you're constantly worrying if you disconnected (your time doesn't reset if you do)
Isorikk
Installing Minecraft probably won't impress them much 😕
Isorikk
One job I applied for asked me to leave a five minute voice recording of why I think I'm outstanding in my field for a level one tech support position. When I didn't, they actually followed up to ask if I was going to leave the voicemail and I said nope but if you think my resume is interesting enough to reach out I'm happy to schedule an interview! They ghosted me after that.
geekykeycap
"I'm not fucking dancing for you"
"Yeah this candidate sounds difficult to work with"
You dodged a bullet I'm guessing, friend.
Anudderuser
Sounds like an excellent way to discriminate without evidence of discrimination.
PallasCatgirl
Yep. If I run into another of those in my job hunt, I may submit a complaint to the EEOC about it, just to see what they have to say. (I tried emailing and asking, but they just said to submit a complaint if I have a concern, which I didn't want to deal with at the time.)
IAmGmork
DuchessPickles
On the flip side (trying to see the positive), it's also a way for companies to see if they are hiring diversity. It's obviously hard to tell from a resume and we are not legally allowed to ask. I would definitely hate doing this myself, however.
TheManWh0SoldTheWorld
There's usually a part where you fill out your ethnicity. More places are adding the "I prefer not to say option" too.
mikeatike
Lol, that is incredibly naive. They can find that out in a real in person or video interview.
MCpeepantz
In fact most of the jobs Ive applied to on Indeed have several "optional" sections where you can list your ethnicity, gender, military history, etc. They absolutely can ask, they just dont have to report that what is being asked is actually a requirement or not (even if they say it doesn't matter). They just have to post a "we are not racist, or discriminatory" blanket statement.