ShutUpOtis
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Jan 6, 2023 1:06 AM
ShutUpOtis
113256
1576
88
majortool
Yeah but not having a car outside of major cities is a loss of freedom. Driving is your freedom. Build up not out.
jackal12345
Plus I'd literally die if I had to walk to work every day. Lives in minnesota and it's been a cold winter.
whatsisname
You know that a lot of Minnesota towns and cities existed and were well populated well before there were cars?
jackal12345
That means so little considering my job wouldn't exist without vehicles.
trasneoir
Several cities north of Minnesota can be navigated on foot underground. Just sayin.
jackal12345
Cool beans, if you don't live and work in one of those cities that means nothing. I would have to walk on the side of a freeway for miles.
Arkkeri
We have quite a lot of ppl who bike to work all year round. We have snow, most of the country is -20C today. No one is allowed to walk on
Arkkeri
the side of a freeway tho, it is illegal. Have to use the bike routes and pedestrian paths going from town to town. Plowed is over 5cm sno
FuryM0nk
Another thing people dont realize is that the free way splits the cities in half most times. You have to walk 5+ blocks to the next overpass
SlartiBarti
unfortunately in the UK a car is cheaper, faster and far more reliable than public transport
igollum42
At this time, working from home, offers a bit more freedom.
ButtPlunger69
Saves money for sure
adjustablemustard
I think you’re listening to the wrong thing on your car stereo.
ByronGetronfree
Right?!
AnotherFailedAttemptAtHumor
This sounds like an r/fuckcars post
nalyon1153
I agree public transportation is the way for cities but it is not realistic for those of us in rural areas. I am hoping to eventually 1/2
nalyon1153
get an electric cars for my wife and I but they are far out of our budget at the moment. I live in NW Ohio surrounded by corn and soy beans
desales
You guys should know the YouTube channel called "NOT JUST BIKES" and also STRONG TOWNS. Re people-centered cities.
spacemanspiff412
I just got back from south east asia, I found a scooter to be truly liberating.
azimir
The moment the weather isn't a wall of freezing air here I get back on the mini motorbike. It's wonderful.
NewtGinGrinch
Gotta get a job so I can get a car so I can go to work to pay off my car then my cars paid off I can save for.. fuck the car broke down.
resigned2register
The same can be said of social media sites.
LittleDragon
I gave up my car months ago. It has not set me free. It has made my life harder. But I am trying to make it work.
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LittleDragon
That's...not that many days.
nero4ty2
It’s a third of the year, having to plan your grocery trips when it rains every second day would suck if it’s a 2 mile walk
desales
My city has cut down bus routes because they cant get drivers, so they say. 90401 Now I am imprisoned in the evenings.
LittleDragon
Yeah. There are days I really worry about getting home from work because the busses aren't very reliable.
Arkkeri
I live 1h away from capitals city center by public transportation and 1,5h away by car. If I still worked there I would commute by public.
nojustsayitdont
Dude. The bus to work makes a 1/2 hour drive into two hours commute. Fuck that noise.
LittleDragon
Where I used to live that was the case. Where I live now it's more even but going carless has made some things harder.
beardedbasterd
It’s not about giving up your car, it’s about governments not building in such a way that requires one. It’s okay to have a car, but best1/2
jkoudys
The knee jerk response to think it's all personal responsibility in the US is strong.
LittleDragon
How do we improve things? Vote. Take action. Those are personal.
LittleDragon
And I am vocal about us needing to improve all that jazz. But no one listens. No one wants even the smallest inconvenience
beardedbasterd
When it’s only used when necessary, rather than it being necessary to use all the time.
channelranger
Is that because your city's mass transit sucks? Because that's the issue. Car companies dismantled our public transit on purpose.
LittleDragon
It does and they have. I try to fight back as best I can but I have been fighting that & other issues with no luck for so long that I'm done
mardukkur
I live where I can walk to work and do 90% of what I need without a car. But that last 10%, damn. Still need that car 1/week.
trasneoir
Canada and Europe have got "share cars" scattered around that you can rent by the hour. Is that a thing in the US?
LittleDragon
I have to take the bus to work. If I forget something my day is shot. Living closer would create a ton of other problems.
DuckPlanetKing
How is your day shot by taking the bus? I drive 20 miles to work and if I forget something well, fuck it I’ll get it after work.
Akurei00
"Shit, I left my work laptop at home!" Is a pretty big one
LittleDragon
Because if I forget something it's usually something I need for work. Hour wait, 30 min ride, get what I forgot, hour wait, 30 min ride.
MermaidLullaby
There's a bus stop 2 mins away from my front door that runs a bus every 20 minutes. Other side of the road the bus takes me to the same >
MermaidLullaby
Then the problem is poor infrastructure where buses don't run regularly enough and possibly on poorly optimized routes...
LittleDragon
It is and I have tried to comment about it. They made it impossible to complain about anything. And most people don't care.
LittleDragon
Other problem is NIMBY and people's view of cars as status symbols. Wealthy people don't want busses in their neighborhoods.
Filanwizard
The interstate system is maybe one of the great catch-22s, It absolutely had a positive impact on the economy and at the time middle class.
Filanwizard
But it also doomed us to the suburb, strip mall and stroad.
Filanwizard
the only reason the Northeast keeps functional walking cities connected by trains is all that was established before the car.
Filanwizard
so the cities are compact in size Philly and Phoenix are roughly the same population. Phoenix is nearly 5x the land area.
Greenwaxy
Cat dependency.
VibratingNipples
they intentionally made pubic transportation shitty on purpose
0sometimessarah0
I'm surprised all the car lovers haven't downvoted this like crazy yet. Everyone just gives in and says I need car... there are solutions.
GravyEducation
Well I get my paycheck thanks to my car (drive for work) but I'm not gonna downvote anyone. Usually it's you guys that DV car lovers
0sometimessarah0
I've never downvoted anything. I only upvote and/or comment, or move on. It's a straw man btw, vehicles are fine, it's the amount thats bad
GravyEducation
Yes agreed. Like I want a solution for everyone! Also someone gave you the down arrow, cars just unlock rage in people lol
Fravash
Just build more trains. Please, I'm begging you.
basicisaac
I guess the message is cool but I’m greatly distracted by the hubris of quoting himself on his work page signing it with his non work page.
ButtPlunger69
The whole message seems deep until you think for 1 second about history of travel and how amazing the concept of groceries are to society
ShutUpOtis
It's his consulting firm. Pretty normal to quote the founder when doing marketing.
basicisaac
Idk. Haven’t seen much of that. If it’s company policy, rather see it stated as such, this way seems as attempt to build a personality cult.
jkoudys
I wonder how much of Imgur has ever worked a job where you care about marketing.
Dagordae
Quoting yourself is not normal. It's aggressively egocentric and has been subject to mockery for literal ages.
TheFastpaws
NotJustBikes on YouTube and others enlightened me on how bad things really are.
nero4ty2
They have a ton of blinders on and no real solutions for how to solve anything, just complaining about very specific situations
evolution4407
I love Not Just Bikes and City Beautiful. Should be required viewing for anyone running for office in state or municipal government.
drh1138
And how people don't want to live in "loud" cities but then commute from the suburbs in cars, which is what causes the noise.
azimir
That video was eye opening. Delft has it going on for quiet city improvements!
Tarmaccian
When I lived downtown, cars weren’t nearly as noisy as drunks, kids, or arguing neighbors. People are noisy. Density makes them worse.
arumunus
Never really hit me until I spoke with folks from other parts of the world, online. Growing up, a lot of our teenage tomfoolery was had at->
arumunus
Gas stations and parking lots.
praisejingus12
Mine just broke down and it’s irreparable and my entire life is in the toilet as a result
ButtPlunger69
I wish you luck internet stranger
nero4ty2
Anything can be fixed
terwashere
So, I used to use public transit for the longest time. I didn't even get my driver's license until I was 23 (heck, I got married first).
terwashere
Having the car has made life so much easier. Thanks to health issues since a year ago, I can't drive far anymore. I miss the freedom of
terwashere
being able to just get up and go where I want like I used to. It's terribly stifling to have to rely on others with a car, or walking a
terwashere
mile or more to get to a bus. I'm fortunate to be able to walk to work. There's nothing else in reasonable walking distance. :(
terwashere
Before anyone says "yeah, but if you lived in a walkable town..." I much prefer my house's location over that. It's pretty quiet here.
Clockworkdancerobot
There's actually a Not Just Bikes video about city noise being almost exclusively from cars. Remove most of those and it gets quiet.
drh1138
Cities would be quiet too if it weren't for all the cars being driven by suburbanites.
Grateful42
and yet, if i need to get some place according to my own life and schedule, i can. kindly fuck off.
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ButtPlunger69
Yeah, I live in the midwest and driving around isnt bad at all, things are spread out here cause plains. In the past it would take weeks to
ButtPlunger69
Get anywhere. Also I can drive from Oklahoma City to Los Angeles in 20 hours without dying. Read Grapes of Wrath sometime
ShutUpOtis
/gallery/obAquhc
evolution4407
She's right! And while I do like the growing popularity of EVs I agree that they're more a band-aid than an actual solution. TY for sharing!
Ronelyn
You can do that in lots of countries without *having* to have a car. So we're fucking back on, thanks. :)
Dagordae
So in, say, Germany you can just bus to any part of a neighboring city at any time at all. No need to care about bus schedules or routes,
Dagordae
just boop and a bus takes you there. Or are you deliberately ignoring what they are saying to avoid actually recognizing the positives AND
Dagordae
negatives of the assorted systems?
whitewater0034
That is great for those who live there, but what has that got to do with grateful42's life?
historycat
You have to forgive the brainwashed. They have trouble seeing other perspectives.
Dagordae
Such as when someone deliberately ignores the positives of a given system to only focus on the negatives while exaggerating the positives of
Dagordae
their chosen system? I mean, alternatively you genuinely don't understand the limitations of public transit systems that by necessity have
Dagordae
limited routes and operate on a set schedule. Which is really weird as that would mean you have never actually interacted with ANY public
whitewater0034
I like that your problems are hand waved aside and ignore, by the fact that completely different countries have a better system. Like wow!
Zahnradfee
The entire point of this post is to make people willing to change their bad system for a better one.
OliverOtter
And the grapes I can't reach are obviously sour.
evolution4407
Wife and I honeymooned in Italy, and we loved how walkable towns like Florence and Venice were.
404GravitassNotFound
*Most of Europe.
nero4ty2
Because you were just visiting, trying to live or just get anything done in places like that can be infuriating
PimpinKen
I loved New York because there was a subway entrance within 3 blocks of you at any given point. It was so easy to get around
FrolickingFrolicking
While often true I think there’s tons of underserved neighborhoods there https://new.mta.info/map/5256
FrolickingFrolicking
Like in that map there are large spaces in Brooklyn and queens you would imagine are swamplands or desert, looking on that map, but I assume
FrolickingFrolicking
there’s tons of houses
FrolickingFrolicking
America: “I’ll just burn some fuel to power my 5,000 pound SUV that is transporting A SINGLE 200lb person” Really? Instead of a mailing
FrolickingFrolicking
envelope do you send mail in a refrigerator?
LuminoZero
WE JUST FUCKING MIGHT!
OneTheory
I want fridge-mail
PimpinKen
Terrible analogy. This is America, we send it in a gun safe
Akurei00
Gun safes? What kinda pussy liberal shit is that? Teach your toddler how to shoot a gun already! Geez!
TK421isAFK
Yeah, but that's what happens when cities were built hundreds of years before cars existed. Today, we have far more jobs concentrated 1/2
TK421isAFK
into huge buildings and factories in cities, and it's not practical to live within walking distance of those jobs. 2/2
GlebReawer
That issue is only due to zoning laws in the US. Nothing prevents to build high density housing close to those factories, except zoning laws
TK421isAFK
The "prevention" is the desire to NOT live next to a damn factory.
GlebReawer
How much of US GDP is produced by factories vs service industry in megacities? Forget the factories and fix the cities stupid zoning laws.
DJOldguy
Cars are dangerous, noisy, dirty, expensive pieces of insane self-harming tech. Why have we let them destroy our cities, kill our ppl?
BatLadyRielle
I would love if public transportation was easier. If I try to take the Max to downtown, it'll take an hour, vs 15min by car
BatLadyRielle
It's not freedom or a choice, it's a barrier
MagicalScientist
If I try to take a bus to go to the clinic, I first have to walk half an hour through the suburbs to reach the correct bus stop.
desales
Youtube channel - Not Just Bikes - is about urban design for people.
nero4ty2
Also doesn’t take into account the vast numbers of humans on the planet, ok ideas but overly optimistic
nevetsx
We are so sprawled out it would about impossible to take us out completely in a nuclear attack.
DoseOfScience
You can still do sprawl without setting up your towns to need cars. Be it rail or simple vertical condensing, you can still scatter.
CaldariBob
You could think that, but you'd be wrong.
nevetsx
The US population is way more dispersed than others. Feel free to disprove that.
CaldariBob
Death from nuclear weapons is not limited to blast damage. Feel free to look into that.
nevetsx
Who said it was? The US population is way more dispersed. That is clearly not wrong.
nevetsx
Be sure to downvote this too like you have a point.
realrealluckless
Just drop a few on the refineries. Like taking the charger away from a kid and watching them as the battery on their tablet dies...
nevetsx
I think small scale refining could be reconstituted quickly.
mardukkur
Not in any useful way for the amount of energy needed.
astrangehop
I'm stealing a model t. You can run them on ethanol
notacobra
Please find an option to house the same number of people and businesses. Cities don't sprawl for the fun of it.
mardukkur
They sprawl because of restrictive zoning.
nevetsx
People want space restrictive zoning is put in place by people who want space. Then there is that pesky infrastructure stuff.
mardukkur
It’s NIMBYs plus unreasonable parking requirements.
notacobra
True in maybe...6 cities on earth, all American.
mardukkur
True in pretty much every US city, with the wealthiest & most desirable cities being the worst offenders.
quietstorm85
What makes you think that? Movies?
nevetsx
The Us population is way more dispersed than others. Sure saw it in a movie. YOUR quite the intellect.
paulwall117350
We've all been stockholmed into believing that cars provide freedom when in reality they're an expensive anchor that chains us to a system
ButtPlunger69
No. We live in an amazing time in which you can travel miles in minutes and experience more of the planet easier.
ButtPlunger69
If you had to walk or ride a horse for days to get groceries, our world of 10 minute car rides for the same would be heaven to you
paulwall117350
https://youtu.be/oOttvpjJvAo This is more what I'm talking about, not that.
UpsidedownPineapples
My first instance with debt. So yeah agreed on that.
SwayzeS
Not when it's paid for. Sure, fuel is expensive, & insurance is costly, too, but I live in the suburbs where I'd starve w/o transportation.
RandomQuack
Now it's time to have a talk about the suburbs...
Sloloem
I don't know if I'd survive moving back into a city.
SwayzeS
I agree. I LIKE having distance between myself & my fellow humans. Between plagues, & the proliferation of guns, staying in the burbs works!
paulwall117350
that's literally set up to make our lives worse if we don't play ball and spend as much money as possible on things we never needed.
Ratman72
But I'm only one person. What can I do?
paulwall117350
Spread the word. Most people have been car brained into thinking there's no other option. Normalize the understanding that there's options.
paulwall117350
Once you can get there and start a conversation with people, that influences voting habits.
GaySocialistLiberalMuslimCommieAtheist
Organize and be part of a group. "United we stand, divided we beg."
nero4ty2
They are way cheaper than any public transit and allow freedom to pick when and where you want to go, also pt sucks with kids, cars rule
paulwall117350
Car centric infrastructure has been proven time and time again to be way more expensive than any form of PT, don't spread misinformation.
nero4ty2
Driving to my office costs me $10 in tolls and gas and 40 minutes, it would be 2+ hours and $30 using multiple transit systems, cars just>
nero4ty2
Work better in many situations, I don’t want to live where I work, like most people, care allow that freedom
ninjarabbit
welcome to late stage capitalism
Intellectualbandit
Literally blowing my mind
Bananasandwiches42
I would argue on the other end of the spectrum those that don’t have a car who don’t have a great transit system of busses/trains and live
Bananasandwiches42
In a city with not many opportunities to jobs, healthy food, medical care, safe living environment would argue differently.
boxmeister
I agree with you. Spent 2019/20 w/o a car. Spent 2021/2022 w/car (2010 prius). Costs more, but worth it.
boxmeister
I get to sleep in later before work. Don't need a backpack for groceries. Can accommodate rides for friends. Move bigger goods. Worth it.
paulwall117350
The things you just listed are all the result of a conspiracy pushed upon you by the auto/oil cartel: https://youtu.be/oOttvpjJvAo
paulwall117350
It didn't have to end up like this, it wasn't this way before, it was rebuilt to be like this on purpose for profit, and we can change it.
FrolickingFrolicking
When you look around any town or city environment it’s disgusting and terrifying to recognize ALL THIS SPACE that forbids anyone to walk or
FrolickingFrolicking
stand there (humans and animals both), and paved over ugly, so that big wasteful machines can drive through
paulwall117350
Whereas the financial district in Dutch cities are green and like a park at street level and serve more traffic due to bikes and transit.
Filanwizard
basically impossible outside of the NE-US and Chicago. was looking up land area and holy shit post-car cities are huge.
Filanwizard
Why does Phoenix need 520sqmi for the same population Philly fits into 120. And I doubt one can take a train to into Phoenix from the burbs
IDontKnowWhatToDoAnymoreAndImTired
The reality is that the US is simply too large and too spread out to not have private vehicles as the backbone of personal transport. Public
Arkkeri
population density too low in the US for public transport? Mmmk. I counter that with Finland/Sweden. Your public Transport suck on purpose.
TheNLK
Having public transport in urban areas and a good rail system between them would be great. However, in rural areas, cars are necessary.
Arkkeri
True.
TheNLK
Comical how I'm downvoted. How do you expect me to get to the grocery store when I live 10+ miles from ANYTHING? 1/2
TheNLK
If you don't like that I live in a rural area fine, but don't downvote because your brain doesn't work.
IDontKnowWhatToDoAnymoreAndImTired
The population density in Finland and Sweden is extremely high, actually. More than a quarter of the population lives in a single city.
Arkkeri
Most of the other 75% can use public transport for commute as well.
IDontKnowWhatToDoAnymoreAndImTired
Most of the other 75% also live in small, built up areas as well. That's the point.
IDontKnowWhatToDoAnymoreAndImTired
transport is great, but it's always going to be impractical outside of extremely urban areas, creating a massive last-mile problem. You can
IDontKnowWhatToDoAnymoreAndImTired
either have a car, or be limited to a single urban area with limited interconnectivity between them.
paulwall117350
It's not true at all. Check out "Not Just Bikes" on YouTube for a specific video essay answer (with references) to each issue you mentioned.
IDontKnowWhatToDoAnymoreAndImTired
It's easy to claim to have answers when you don't have to implement them. The EU is half the size of the US with 3X the population density.
paulwall117350
There are remote towns in Europe with less than 3k people that have regular 24hr train service at intervals of only a few minutes. It's
Funnyjunker
Ever heard of trains?
IDontKnowWhatToDoAnymoreAndImTired
Yeah, that's not at all an answer to the last mile problem. Trains are FAR worse than buses in that regard.
c85fkbvw9r
It's possible to own a reliable and inexpensive car.
paulwall117350
Reliable and inexpensive is still at least 25 cents per mile, which is an extraordinary expense for someone who has to commute from low cost
paulwall117350
housing outside of the city to a job where the pay is decent enough to afford the rent. And the national average cost per mile is almost 70
paulwall117350
cents per mile, this number is the tax deduction for business miles and it's derived from people who've done the research on what Americans
paulwall117350
are actually spending on transportation, not including infrastructure, which is absolutely heinous compared to literally any other means.
drzdeano
The absolute lack of awareness of people here. If you can make your life work without a car, good for you , stop shitting on people who cant
drzdeano
Not every city has reliable PT , not every part of cities that do have PT is covered. Almost everywhere outside a city doesn't have good PT
evolution4407
1/2 No one's shitting on people who depend on cars. *Depend* is the key word. The meme is to shit on those who continue to advocate for and
evolution4407
2/2 build car-dependent cities, id est, suburban sprawls. You say not every city has reliable PT? Yes. We know. That's part of the problem!
Dagordae
Yes they are. People are calling people who prefer cars brainwashed. You can't have a conversation when any discussion other than blind
evolution4407
People who depend on cars =/= People who prefer cars.
Dagordae
agreement is met with scorn. A refusal to acknowledge and discuss the pros and cons of the systems isn't a discussion, it's screaming