just4thelolz
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Jan 5, 2024 12:06 PM
just4thelolz
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ShinFinalSaber
...Wasn't it from Nightwatch first, and then repeated in Snuff by Cherry?
just4thelolz
Not sure. That did happen from time to time though. Pratchett repeating ideas I mean.
MusicPenguin
Check the privacy paper by Daniel Solove, "Nothing to Hide: The False Tradeoff Between Privacy and Security", where he dissects that assertion and its dangers.
Link here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3976770
Guestmod
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aslum
I had a dream last night that I met an interesting woman at a con and we started talking about Terry Pratchett and when I woke up I was sad
aslum
for a minute because I hadn't got a chance to exchange contact info before I woke up.
CplCarrot
GNU
phalanxausage
I quote Pratchett more than any other author. It's not even close. There's a Pratchett quote for everything.
PotOfJam
I am currently reading that book again :) sad there is no more Vimes after it though :( (apart from a little cameo in raising steam I believe)
happytrees
shhh
PileOfWalthers
It wasn’t that the city was lawless. It had plenty of laws. It just didn’t offer many opportunities not to break them. Swing didn’t seem to have grasped the idea that the system was supposed to take criminals and, in some rough-and-ready fashion, force them into becoming honest men. Instead, he’d taken honest men and turned them into criminals. And the Watch, by and large, into just another gang.
just4thelolz
If it comes to my favorite Watch novels, I go back and forth between Night Watch and Thud!.
ToSisPoS
Night Watch still strikes me as his masterpiece. That and the first chapters of I Shall Wear Midnight, which might be one of the biggest gut-punches I’ve read in a children’s fantasy book.
Richek
WHERES MY COW
Zakcl
IS THAT MY COW? IT GOES BAAAAAAA!
ArkoneAxon
THAT! IS NOT! MY! COW!
OzzyKnight
I find it easier to admit which of my children is my favorite. (Whichever one is still sleeping)
TwiH
“The important thing is not to shout at this point, Vimes told himself. Do not…what do they call it…go postal? Treat this as a learning exercise. Find out why the world is not as you thought it was. Assemble the facts, digest the information, consider the implications. THEN go postal. But with precision.”
just4thelolz
*go spare
ArkoneAxon
"He's going to go librarian."
thatwoodguy
I see so many people recommending this book but the massive size of the Discworld catalog frightens me a bit. I got through the xanth series fine enough but
just4thelolz
You can limit yourself (for now) to only the City Watch books which stand well enough on their own (and incidentally are my favorites). 8 books. Start with Guards! Guards!, then Men at Arms, Feet of Clay, Jingo, The Fifth Elephant, Night Watch, Thud!, and finally Snuff. You probably wont be lost if you skip a book or two. The Watch grows a bit in each book, so you might see some new characters, but the stories are fairly self-contained.
freshthrowaway1138
If you can get through the tedium (no offense) of the xanth series, discworld will be a piece of cake.
ispendtomuchtimehere
so true
bobthefunny
GNU Sir Terry Pratchett
doctorId
"Just comply and you have nothing to worry about" is usually said in reference to a police force that regularly kills people who are complying.
ThisGuyPostingThings
Vimes is one of my favourite fictional characters ever, and the Watch books among my favourites period. Some of the few I re-read often.
PballQhead
just4thelolz
He really saw the writing on the wall.
tylerlarson
Snuff in particular had a lot of prescient civil commentary. It also had The Magnificent Fanny, which put it in its own category of literature.
DukeSamuelVimes
It was insightful but not really prescient, for the same reason many works seem so but rarely ever are, and that's that problems contemporary today have a trend of being contemporary to the past.
tylerlarson
Okay.
BeverlyHillsBillie
Always an upvote for Sir Terry Pratchett.
solrev
GNU Sir Terry Pratchett
TricksyHobbsits
GNU Sir Terry Pratchett
kahooki
GNU Sir Terry Pratchett
bobthefunny
GNU Sir Terry Pratchett
WoeToHice
GNU Sir Terry Pratchett
Jak29
GNU Sir Terry Pratchett (My friend doesn't know what GNU means)
PlaceHolderTitle
Every time I see a quote from Commander Vimes I think “this guy gets it” and I want to read these books anyone got recommendations which should be read first?
thesmelge
Guards Guards
DigiT00l
Start ar the beginning if you want to read them all, it is the hardest to get into if you already read later ones
PlaceHolderTitle
The books are all in the discworld setting but isn’t it different storylines?
augsburgwitch
All the books are set on the Discworld, but the stories follow different protagonists, e.g. the Watch, DEATH, the Witches or the Wizards. The first Watch novel is Guards Guards, but characters from other books will also appear.
phalanxausage
Pratchett matured as an author while writing the Discworld series. They are all good, well written, very funny books but the early ones lack the tremendous depth of the later ones. Since most of them follow a general timeline, I usually tell people to read "Small Gods," which is set in an unspecified point in the past. If that book makes you crave more, start at the beginning & enjoy his transformation from amusing Douglas Adams fan to the intersection of Jonathan Swift & PG Wodehouse.
geoffreyfourmyle
A special caveat for the first two novels (one story split into two volumes): it's not really "Discworld" as much as it is "spoofs of famous fantasy tropes". All the characters you meet are recognizable specific other fantasy characters that were popular at the time (and a few still are). Even the city was more "Thieves' World Sanctuary turned up to 11 with jokes" than trying to be a new place.
After that, Pratchett took all the spoofs and started breathing unique life into them.
zerogiven
I would suggest reading "Guards! Guards!" first...both because it's the book that introduces Sam Vimes, and because it's a damned good entry point to Discworld in general. (It was written maybe a quarter of the way into Pratchett's Discworld career.) The next two books focusing on Vimes and the Watch are "Men at Arms" and "Feet of Clay"...and by that point, most people are hooked and want to branch out to other storylines, or go back and read them all from the beginning.
zerogiven
@phalanxausage mentioned that "Small Gods" is a nice entry point, since it's set a century or two before the others...but I actually don't usually recommend it as an entry point. It doesn't rely on knowing specific plot points from other books, but it reads better if you've already absorbed the general feel of Discworld.
geoffreyfourmyle
The books run in parallel threads based on the major characters. You'd be looking for the City Watch thread. (Note that the Death (yes, the actual grim reaper) is a character who appears in every book even if it's just a cameo. His speech is always in all caps.)
geoffreyfourmyle
Added note for beginners: the stories around the outside (starting at Colour of Magic) are in publication order.
dalaiyoda
𝗗𝗥𝗔𝗜𝗡 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗦𝗪𝗔𝗠𝗣
elten
Not his way, he'd survey the swamp and cultivate all it's available resources, using the alligators to guard the mushroom farms
paynoattentiontousernames
"nuke the swamp from orbit - it's the only way to be sure"
anji12305
"Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote.”
― Terry Pratchett, Mort
IMadeAnAccountForThisFuckingSobStory
By all accounts. He was also a good man. Ruthless murdering backstabbing lying deceitful and all the other monikers. But he did get ankh morphok back up and running. Sure you'll get mugged but you'll also get a receipt for the hassle.
busterfixxitt
TAX THE THIEVES!
mak10z
Such great casting for the Films :)
Goldenteckel
Jeremy Irons was also an interesting choice, though.
Michelicorne
wait what movies? I only saw the Hogfather. And now I'm reading everything.
PballQhead
So much better than that Lannister hack. Havelock would have been on the Iron Throne in three months, six tops.
TwiH
Havelock probably would've changed places and let his visitors sit on that uncomfortable pointy throne so they would leave sooner
just4thelolz
Agreed. Although I always picture Brian Blessed when I think about Archchancellor Mustrum Ridcully. Blessed is admittedly a bit old now.
Soggybathroomsock
Yeesss, HA HA HA!!
ThisGuyPostingThings
I usually imagined someone closer to Alan Rickman or Jeremy Irons, but you're right, that is an excellent choice.
PballQhead
Jeremy Irons actually had the role in Colour Of Magic, and I agree he's got the look better, but that's such an early story that it's not even clear the unnamed Patrician even was Vetinari and he certainly wasn't the fully developed character regardless.
ArkoneAxon
Apparently there was at least one instance of the entire Disc being destroyed and then restored (with the miniature universe Mort had at the end of his book). It seems that Pratchett used that to retcon away any of the earlier inconsistencies (such as the original Vetinari being a fat dude in "Color of Magic" who wasn't quite as clever as his iconic depictions).
OutboardOverlord
The phrase "I've got nothing to hide" when privacy is discussed, is equally bad.
cocainerabbit
my wife used to say this shit.. now she's an anarchist
paynoattentiontousernames
"I have nothing to hide so here's a picture of my penis"
Subtilico
"I need privacy not because my actions are questionable, but because your judgment is." - [dunno who said this first]
KilliK69
Whenever someone defends a billion dollar corpo which steals and sells his personal data, with the argument that he doesn't care because he has nothing to hide, i ask him in return to disclose to me his full name and surname.
ofc, he refuses to do so with the excuse that they are private data. And there lies the problem in a society. Nobody gives a damn about anything, unless it affects him directly.
DrKonrad
EVERYONE has something to hide. Your own privacy is not up for debate, it is a RIGHT.
DarthFutuza
The most basic example of this: if you don't believe privacy is important, post your SSN and bank account information here. If privacy isn't important, why are you trying to keep that information to yourself?
Zamm005
Bear in mind tho.. It is mostly said by ignorant people. Sincerely, someone who used to say things like this in my youth.
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ATLandNerdy
Cause he's oh, so good
And he's oh, so fine
And he's oh, so healthy
In his body and his mind
He's a well respected man about town
Doing the best things so conservatively
LoudBirb
A lot of the things people try to hide are honestly kinda pathetic, as well. Most emotional appeals to privacy (which I'll clearly state is an extremely important right) are things like dick pics and porn preferences. You're not the center of the world, Gary, no one actually cares that you jerk off to girls taking a fat dump on your chest or whatever. Shame is for the weak. Hide that you're planning to set up a trans rights protest outside Elon Musk's house. Now, that's a good use of privacy.
OutboardOverlord
*sighs* ... and there it is. I AM!
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OutboardOverlord
I'll start coloring outside the lines from now on...
FrogBotherer
What's also bad is how people massively underestimate how interesting vast amounts of extremely mundane information is to certain people and organisations. If governments had the same sort of wholesale access to personal information that Google has, we would all be in serious shit.
MrMcCarrick
I mean you say that, but isn't that literally how the government gets that information? They are legally prevented from obtaining it first hand without a warrant, but the government buys massive amounts of our data from data brokers online. I would imagine that includes much of what we put on Google, particularly since I believe Alphabet Co does engage in data selling.
FrogBotherer
To an extent I suppose, but I was more thinking of a WeChat style scenario where the government has instant access a system that's basically mandatory to use. At least when it comes to Google etc people have the ability to somewhat limit the amount of data being collected - e.g. you don't *need* to use Google services if you don't want to.
StaccatoShrimp
But Google is the largest advertising service on the internet. Part of the data they collect comes from that service and Im sure is part of what they sell. The only way to avoid it is to not use the entire internet. Which is not realistic or desirable.
atrielienz
No. They don't. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/03/google-says-it-doesnt-sell-your-data-heres-how-company-shares-monetizes-and. They can't because it does against their business model.
atrielienz
For what it's worth, the way people think of data selling is not how it actually works. There's so much data that google hoards and won't release because it's so useful to them. That being said they do sell some anonymized data. I'm not defending them but I really don't like seeing people say this without any context.
RobbieRodriguez
Easy: anyone that tells you that, instantly tell them to give you their phone unlocked. And if they do, show them their browser history, and photos.
drGrafenberg
But there are people who would let you do that and there is nothing.
CoeurFranc
Or they are simply more adept at hiding their less open secrets.
drGrafenberg
Ah, self-fulfilling prophecy.
atrielienz
Lol. Because they know how to hide what they don't want people to see or because they're naive.
StellarJay77
Or they just don't care about stupid societal ideals like that we should be ashamed of liking porn.
drGrafenberg
Or they’re just secure in themselves?
atrielienz
Anybody that secure in themselves is either an idiot or has already hidden anything they don't want to be found.
phalanxausage
I ask them to let me film them taking a shit. "Hey, you're not doing anything wrong, I just want to be sure." I'm afraid someday someone will agree instead of stammering while trying hard to avoid my point.
StellarJay77
Go ahead and film me, this is a false equivalency anyway because no organization is going to devote that level of monitoring resources into tracking people because the vast majority would not have any kind of return on that investment. Remember, data collection and information gathering is ALL about generating money. Leveraging people's shame over being nude or liking porn as an argument for complete privacy is a bad-faith argument at best.
textilelover
I actually wouldn't be bothered by anyone seeing anything on my phone. I don't do anything questionable on it. That being said, if the powers that be suddenly decide that something that I consider totally normal is actually criminal, like D&D or something, then there's a problem. And that's why privacy matters.
StellarJay77
This is the correct response. The argument for complete privacy by leveraging people's shame over being nude or liking porn is a bad faith argument for it as there are so many other legitimate reasons for some privacy protections. No one talks about all the benefits we have gotten in our society from data collection and analysis either. There's a happy middle ground with this and it's important we try to strike that balance.
ReaperCDN
And? There's literally nothing for me to hide in either of those. Have fun. My phone is very boring.
MrMcCarrick
I'm in the same boat but the point is most people - especially these right wing politicians that parrot the phrase - would absolutely not accept that. While I personally don't feel most people have something to hide, I do think most politicians do, especially in the "party of family values" that keeps having members outed as sex pests and pedophiles.
ReaperCDN
Oh I completely agree with that. I'm just pointing out that there are people with nothing to hide, and we don't hide anything. There are no secrets you can use against me because I don't have anything like that to worry about. The only thing I do have to worry about I'm very open about already, so it's not a secret.
OutboardOverlord
Easier said than done when on the internet, which is where that stupid phrase most commonly shows up. I've tried it once or twice with "Show me your browser history, then." but strangely they never respond...
spinbutton3
My browser history and photos are boring as hell, (unless you love my cat) but I would never give some stranger on the web a look at my stuff. You could easily be a scammer. Having said that, I'm a privacy nut.
OutboardOverlord
I don't consider anyone who wants their mundane stuff to themselves "Privacy nuts". I consider the ones who want to see it questionable and untrustworthy. There's a difference :)
spinbutton3
So true. I hate the constant eyes on us and what we do in the real world and virtual
MeanWinchester
Ah, see the key is to be unashamed of how disgusting you are... Or use private browsing when doing something you're ashamed of, like googling how to spell commonly used words like etymology.
Badsequence
The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. Just like most other "sayings" has been bastardized from it's original form
MeanWinchester
Yeah, as it turns out, no it wasn't. That version is the bastardised, or more accurately, Tumblrised version. There's no evidence that it was ever more than "blood is thicker than water"
Bronnen
Mine is equally as banal lol
DoctorCaptainProfessorAmazing
Yep.
EggsaretheDevil
Well if you do use private browsing you have something to hide and just made his point
MeanWinchester
With a joke. Of course people should be entitled to privacy, I didn't think that was an opinion that needed outright stating. In future I'll be sure to put disclaimers on comments intended for humour. (Disclaimer: no I won't, that statement was made in jest)