amipretty
402054
1957
35
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5-Uky-4kU9Y
Jul 4, 2023 1:23 PM
amipretty
402054
1957
35
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5-Uky-4kU9Y
HansVerhaegen
Yaaaay! Forrest Valkai, fuck yeah!
Grinch01
I my opinion he mixed it a bit up with theory and theorem but yeah thats the differenz when a scientist speaks of a theory or a lunatic
LuminousViolet
“‘But evolution is only a theory’ it gives you hope, doesn’t it? That maybe they feel the same way about the theory of gravity… and they might just float the fuck away.” - Tim Minchin - https://youtu.be/1zeQ458FPAo
Solkanarmy
if theories are so great then why does everyone look down on theology? checkmate, atheists! /s
languex
In theory, tRump is a living POS!
Tumescentpie
The people who made the argument against theory knew what they were doing. They understand every bit of how it is used in science. They are arguing in bad faith to waste time. And they've wasted countless hours over the past 40+ years.
djangojazz
Republican: "I did my own research. Drinking my own pee is better than a shot for curing COVID!"
akspartankiiier
Yeah this doesn’t make sense. The theory of gravity isn’t a theory anymore, it’s a fact. Same with the shape of the earth. Maybe I’m misunderstanding
cactuskid1956
Magats proven idiots theory.
gyrum
I thought the highest form was a law?
kr67
No. Theory is "higher". A law describes something that exists and a theory explains why
gyrum
Hmm. Thanks for the explanation. Either those got crossed in my mind over the years, or I was not taught correctly.
lordsupafly
Well, in theory, my car is a piece of shit.
elhigh
This exact dichotomy is why I now call peoples' unproven guesses hypotheses. Because that's more accurate.
hollenqual
Aside of the fact that both usages are correct (the scientific and the coloquial), the term theory is not that... rigid. Its not always something that has been proved. Gravity is the perfect example: We can "predict" what could happens when two objects with difer
hollenqual
Diffetent mass orbit each other, but we really can't explain why it happens, nor what is the origin of gravity.
Shaodyn
Funny how he mentioned the shape of the planet, considering that lots of people refuse to believe it.
Blank1612
Not sure how much that is a theory anymore, considering people have literally seen it from outer space and taken pictures of it. Is it also a theory that a soccer ball is round?
SoGrosslyIncandescent
Scientifically I believe that would be both a theory and a law. The law is the observation that the earth IS a specific shape, and the theory is the explanation of WHY it's that shape
Shaodyn
Unfortunately, we live in a world where facts are often less important than beliefs. If you don't like a fact, just refuse to believe it.
madjo
I don’t believe that.
Shaodyn
Now you're getting it.
LisaSimps0nsDr3aM
There is “common language” and US English which has strangely uncommon meanings for words like “socialism”, “freedom”, “democracy”, and many more … /s
ArcheiaSophiaMetatronsWife
Isn't hypothesis what he is referring to when speaking in laymen's terms to other laypeople.... Not theory....?
ArdentNature
I (biologist) find the cells theory example a bit misleading. We KNOW our bodies are made out of cells, as it is observable. I think he's referring to the predictions we can make from that observation about other entities?
RabeMeansRaven
I believe it's the idea that we know that cells are the basis for all the life we've observed. There's no telling what we might find elsewhere in the universe.
wabitgirl
I thin a good way to think about the difference is to use something like the law and the theory of gravity. Newton's law of universal gravitation is g((M1xM2)/r^2), while the theory of gravity is our best attempt at explaining WHY that equation holds true. We make all sorts of predictive calculations using the gravitational equation, but our explanations as to why it holds true have been a topic of much debate in the theoretical particle physics community for a good while.
Septcanmat
Yup, or the other parts of cell theory - like that all living things are composed of cells. If we ever found a living thing that wasn’t composed of cells, that would invalidate the theory, though it wouldn’t invalidate the fact that most living things are made of cells. Similarly, we now know that cells are themselves composed of sub-structures, so saying cells are the building blocks of living things is sort of an incomplete explanation.
ArdentNature
Yeah that's what I also thought. Thanks
ToastedStrudel
What about the theory of gravity?
RabeMeansRaven
what about it?
JackalopeElope
Which is why string theory is still controversial, apparently. It's internally consistent, but it doesn't predict.
IssacOppenheimer
Theory means that in all disciplines OTHER than mathematics. String theory is just math and is untestable in a scientific context.
Septcanmat
Or, to put a bit finer a point on it - the predictions it makes are untestable. This is an important facet though because things are untestable for different reasons - sometimes it’s a technological limitation, sometimes it’s baked right into the theory (like the holographic principle). One of the reasons string theory is difficult to test is that its predictions aren’t unique - there aren’t any tests we can do that would affirm string theory while detracting from other explanations.
AlrightlyThen
Yet
NotABadLookingNarcissist
I’ve seen a lot of you tube astronomers/quantum physics etc channels lately claiming that string theory is prob wrong and has failed as a theory. Haven’t looked into it much, but it seems like we need something to replace it. I like that there are still scientific frontiers. Gravity, dark matter, the human brain…other stuff.
applesforjuice
I've always thought it wasn't any good. Not sure why, the vibes were just off I guess
PresterJon
PBS has a decent YouTube series. From what I read that while it doesn't provide any real testable results, string theory provides some mathmatical tools
NotABadLookingNarcissist
Cool. I’ll have to check that out. Is it PBS space time? I love that channel but the dude usually loses me at some point - my puny brain just can’t follow some of the deeper theoretical timey- wimy stuff. Makes sense that string theory has lasted this long if it has some mathematical uses.
getridofTheSeaword
I thought “law” was the highest and just below that was “theory” in scientific language. I only have a Bachelor’s in science though so I may be misremembering.
NotABadLookingNarcissist
I like forest. Stopped watching his channel recently cause he’s a little too snarky, but I appreciate his work.
NotABadLookingNarcissist
If he talked more like this I would prob watch him more. Is he on someone else’s show here?
CoarseAndSalty
We use 'theory' in the same context in common speech. It doesn't mean wild guess. It is the best model based evidence and tested to the best of our ability. The problem is that conservatives are fucking stupid and and unafraid of their own stupidity.
vaecae
"Opps, there goes gravity."
Wolfwod
I was pretty sure a law is the highest level and an hypothesis being the lowest.
zafner
It's not just science. It's all forms of academic work. I took a class in college called Music Theory. Is anybody really going to tell me that music is hypothetical?
RalphH
Sooo, this is not really a theory? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjohhUyfCeY
Sheldonian
RalphH
thanks, i do like me too :)
Babomonkey
moxythree
Why do we need to slit the text between white and yellow?
moxythree
Or split if your don’t fat finger or.
ThatsProbablyInMyBag
It is like the difference of when a scientist uses the word believe which means that there is so much evidence not 100% but damn close. Whereas a person of faith uses it to mean there is 0% of evidence.
GlennBecksChalkboard
I'm not sure I was able to follow this. Does this guy know where my sock went in the dryer or not?
ctsawood0
Your comment and the comments after had me in tears, laughing. Kudos to all
Donaldbain
Yes, but he's been bought off by Big Sock to keep quiet.
DoomSquirter
I'm sorry to tell you this but your sock is now a tupperware lid somewhere in your kitchen.
DropDrop
Basically he doesn't know for sure where his sock is, it's just a guess, just like the earth being round and not flat is just a guess, and my guess that it's flat is equally if not more valid, that's what he's saying. /s
HavelTh3Rock
I think that falls under quantum mechanics?
J4nein4ne
No, he's only theorizing about HIS socks in HIS dryer. You're on your own for your socks, chief.
madjo
But we can predict a few things. Have you checked the lint drawer?
J4nein4ne
I don't even know where @GlannBEcksChalkboard lives, let alone where their lint drawer is; so, no, I haven't checked there. But I'm willing if they are, *eyebrows eyebrows*
adrianontherocks
Yeah I hate when people use theory in casual conversation. I try to use hypothesis and let me tell you, it’s made me real popular. People love the explanation I launch into when they ask me why I used that word.
bynming
I used to feel that way but now I just accept that there's a distinction between "theory" when used in casual conversation and big T scientific Theory. Language is too fluid to get hung up on things like that. Can't deny the unfortunate tragedy though, that now simpletons come to conclusions like the Theory of evolution is "just a theory"... but those people probably cannot be salvaged.
TheOvy
The day people casually use "hypothesis" instead of "theory" is the day they'll start using "beg the question" correctly. Academics have strict language for good reason, but it's a losing fight against vernacular
tzahtman
Words meaning one thing in a particular field and another outside that field is not just common it is standard.
NivalisAngelus
I've been using theory wrong in casual conversation wrong this entire time!
JoylessGreyhound
Oh thank Dawkins! I thought i was the only one! +1
Jaxotea
I tend to just use idea or 'I have a thought why....', but for the same reasons. But then most of the people I know are scientists either by education or profession so it is easier.
LetThemEatPie
My theory is we use the word theory because nobody can spell hypothesis
cyberspork
I get where you are coming from but language does have its quirks. When someone says "evolution is just a theory", they can f themselves BUT
cyberspork
theory also has a colloquial use. IDK if its wrong, but I kinda get it
blau79
Hypothesis is also wrong, though. Science teacher here.
StudioDerpster
Yes, how so and what then should we use when we have an idea about the cause of something just based on casual observation?
Millwr1ght
What if they go on to gather data and observations and make conclusions based on gathered evidence about their hypothesis?
hardytardigrade
How so?
ruint
maybe speculative conjecture is only a hypothesis if it's testable or something. teacher would know.
bonoboforscale
I do the same, I always use hypothesis in everyday conversation and I will die on this hill
rob0tgot
You and me both. I find that the only people who don't hate me for it are scientists
Squirrelninja
I use thesis.
cannibl4
Fight on, brother!
TwistedHumor732
Boksha
Why? Language has different registers. Words mean different things depending on context. Look up basically ANY word in ANY language in ANY dictionary: you'll find multiple definitions. Figuring out what definition applies in a certain circumstance is just something we humans do. If you refuse and maintain that "theory" has only one meaning, that doesn't make you smart: it just makes you bad at language. For real: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/theory definition 1 vs. definition 2. Both there.
UnicornsToxicRainbowFart
I'd like to point out the first segment of this video. "contemplation, speculation" are the meaning of the original greek root of "theory". Our linguistic colloquialisms predate scientific use, so these are in fact two completely different usages of the same word, and both are validd. Just understand your context
thevoiddancer
Yes, the context is important. And the context of talking about the word theory on shows like this is the ending, where he mentions evolution. That is the only theory, in the scientific sense, that ever gets the "it's just a theory", in colloquial sense, treatment. Ok, sure, for some people the shape of the planet is also "just a theory".
UnicornsToxicRainbowFart
Agreed, and yes, I was referring to specifically colloquial use, a la "I have a theory about this banana..." no bad faith there lol
thevoiddancer
No bad faith. I understood what you meant, it's clear.
Septcanmat
I’d actually counter and say that the colloquial and scientific usage are actually exactly the same; the difference is that the only theories from science you hear about are the ones that survive scrutiny. We do the same thing in casual conversation - if I have a theory that my keys are by the front door, but evidence proves that theory incorrect, then that theory is tossed out. Scientific theories that aren’t useful are also tossed out.
Septcanmat
But what this also means is that successful scientific theories also have a LOT of supporting evidence. So unlike colloquial theories which are discussed while they’re still quite “young”, scientific theories that laypeople are hearing about regularly are very mature and reliable.
TruckasaurusLex
Except that scientifically it only becomes a theory when the evidence *does* support it. It's a hypothesis or a conjecture or some other thing before that. So the colloquial and scientific uses actually aren't the same at all.
Septcanmat
That’s not quite accurate. A hypothesis is a specific testable conjecture. A theory is a proposed model or explanation of how and why something happens. Both can exist prior to supporting evidence. They’re similar but distinct concepts.
TruckasaurusLex
So... still very different from the colloquial meaning, yeah? "A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that can be (or a fortiori, that has been) repeatedly tested and corroborated in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results." The video is also suggesting that the a fortiori explanation here is the one most used in science for "theory".
UnicornsToxicRainbowFart
As mentioned by the other user, colloquial theories are more akin to a scientific hypothesis. "A theory is actually the highest level to which an idea can be elevated" -the video; so under this premise a scientific theory is considered a rank an idea can attain, where the colloquial theory is a guess. It's quite an apples and oranges scenario.
Septcanmat
Right and I disagree with the guy in this video. I’m saying that his definition of theory is too narrow and doesn’t actually account for all of the theories that actually exist in practice, and it unnecessarily elevates the idea of a scientific theory in a way that functions as a kind of gate keeping. Like, what the hell does “highest level that an idea can attain” even mean? Academics don’t have rigid hierarchies that ideas are organized by and there’s no formal promoting or demoting of them.
Septcanmat
Furthermore, “the highest level it can attain” is total bunk considering that we have plenty of common Theories that we know are wrong/incomplete but we still use them because they’re *useful* - gravity being the perfect example of this. Newton’s theory of gravity is probably demonstrably false, but we still teach it because it’s incredibly useful for literally 100% of cases in certain disciplines: a civil engineer will never need to consider the special relativistic nature of gravity.
UnicornsToxicRainbowFart
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
UnicornsToxicRainbowFart
There's no demotions needed because they are simply dismissed. My dude, stop arguing this point against the scientific definition of theory. It's not the same, because science needs its own language. There are like a million terms in colloquial english that have wildly unrelated meanings in certain industries. It's ok